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Discussion Starter #1
As some of you may already know, I've been obsessed with finding a way around Indiana's curious regulations for deer firearms season. I had the idea of trimming the .35 Remington's 1.92-inch case down to 1.80 inches, the maximum legal case length for the season. I discarded that idea when learning the barrel must be stamped for a legal cartridge. I had considered, of course, a Marlin 1894 or Henry Big Boy, a Ruger 77/44, an H&R 1871 in .500 S&W Magnum, and even a Ruger No. 1 in .475 Linebaugh.

But I don't want to use pistol cartridges. Call me impossible.

Now, last month I came across an article for an Indiana wildcat called the .358 Hoosier. It's a .358 Winchester trimmed to regulation and that's it. Apparently, there's even a gunsmith who will install a custom barrel and make the necessary modifications to the receiver of any rifle that used the .308 case.

You can read about it here, and several folks I've communicated with on Indiana hunting forums attest to the ballistics claimed. Anyway, I just thought I would throw this out there for your entertainment. I am thinking of buying a used bolt-action and having it converted. Why? Well, what appeals to me here is that while the Hoosier was conceived for Indiana use, it is not limited in its utility. It still throws a 225gr bullet at .358 Win velocities, which makes it a great choice for black bears, big pigs, and the nearby Kentucky elk - if I'm ever lucky enough to draw a non-resident tag.
 
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Discussion Starter #2
This isn't the only Indiana wildcat going right now, but it is the most practical. Others are the .358 WSSM, .358 1.8 Just Hunt, .358 Indiana Express, .358 BFG, .358 Grant, and I'm sure there're others. If you're wondering why everything is .358, that's the smallest caliber legal for deer firearms season.
 

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Thanks, I just saw an add for that in the Hunting Regulations and it is very intriguing (if the DNR does not throw up on it). I have been unhappy with the accuracy on my 1894 (I think I am being too picky - about 2 inches at 50 yards despite LOTS of handload development, a scope, a happy trigger - my longest shot is 50 yards so it is Minute of Deer) so I actually ordered a muzzleloader for my Indiana deer hunting and will use that during firearm and muzzleloader seasons.

Great idea - I will be watching to see how it pans out.
 

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I saw an ad for the 358 in the Indiana Hunting & Trapping Guide, mighty tempting, but I think I will get a new crossbow with the new laws. Not a rifle, but I like the idea of being able to hunt from October to January.

-Kilroy
 

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I don't live in Indiana but I did read the law/regulation awhile back the last time this subject came up. What I got out of it is that the reason for the 35 cal or larger pistol cartridge rifle is bullet energy at pistol cartridge velocity. The point is Indiana doesn't want the bullet to go the distance that can be achieved with rifle cartridges. Indiana regulation even make it so simple that even I understand. They list the names of the pistol cartridges that are legal to use in rifles.

So I think the 1. 80 case length is half of the law/regulation and the other half is pistol cartridge. Trimming down a rifle case still makes rifle cartridge in my books and I believe in the Indiana's books too.

But interesting anyhow. But it sounds like another bench rifle cartridge.

Good luck with the 358:questionmark: But before you invest see if it is on their list.

T
 

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Levergunguy, if you trimmed that case to 1.80, and had an old 336 (that you maybe didn;t mind doing this to), why couldn;t you "x" out the factory cartridge marking on the barrel, make a name for your new "wildcat", and stamp it on there. I'm wondering if that would be legal(?) I mean, it isn;t like obliterating the serial number or anything.

I know that's kind of extreme, seeing as how the rifle would still shoot the standard 35Rem, but ti comes to my mind out of spite for the regulation. Now, these regulators at the State level, would anyone believe they "didn;t know" about the 35Remington? Nope. They knew, and purposefully excluded it. I would bet anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I don't live in Indiana but I did read the law/regulation awhile back the last time this subject came up. What I got out of it is that the reason for the 35 cal or larger pistol cartridge rifle is bullet energy at pistol cartridge velocity. The point is Indiana doesn't want the bullet to go the distance that can be achieved with rifle cartridges. Indiana regulation even make it so simple that even I understand. They list the names of the pistol cartridges that are legal to use in rifles.

So I think the 1. 80 case length is half of the law/regulation and the other half is pistol cartridge. Trimming down a rifle case still makes rifle cartridge in my books and I believe in the Indiana's books too.

But interesting anyhow. But it sounds like another bench rifle cartridge.

Good luck with the 358:questionmark: But before you invest see if it is on their list.

T
The law allows for the wildcats. They list the handgun cartridges because that simplifies things for the vast majority of hunters, but they knew the wildcatters would do their thing. I am being told this loophole was a part of the process on DNR's part, to see how things develop with a small number of hunters using experimental high-powered loads. The only criteria is that the bullet diameter be at least 0.358 inches and the case length be between 1.4 and 1.8 inches in length. Because no handguns are chambered with a .358 caliber bullet in these case length specifications, why else would they make that distinction. At any rate, it is completely legal. I know that the .358 WSSM was featured in the Indiana DNR television show by one of their employees as being a legitimate cartridge.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I just don't think the DNR expected that wildcatters would find a way to match .358 Win ballistics in a case that length.
 

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Levergunguy, if you trimmed that case to 1.80, and had an old 336 (that you maybe didn;t mind doing this to), why couldn;t you "x" out the factory cartridge marking on the barrel, make a name for your new "wildcat", and stamp it on there. I'm wondering if that would be legal(?) I mean, it isn;t like obliterating the serial number or anything.

I know that's kind of extreme, seeing as how the rifle would still shoot the standard 35Rem, but ti comes to my mind out of spite for the regulation. Now, these regulators at the State level, would anyone believe they "didn;t know" about the 35Remington? Nope. They knew, and purposefully excluded it. I would bet anyway.
I don't know about the removing the original barrel stamping. I don't know what the law is on that. I do know that they sale custom state-legal .358's at small shops with Krieger barrels stamped .358 Hoosier.
 

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Now I'm wondering why a guy would even have to "x" out the original caliber stamp. Just leave it there, go forward of it a little, and stamp it: 358 Hoosier. Hmmm.....
 

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Wait a minute If you stamp a barrel with a 35Rem. chamber it is still a 35 rem. rifle and would be IMO legally misleading. The rifle can still be chambered with a 35 Rem. but if it is chanber for the 358 Hoosier then it can't be. In area rifles must only have 5 round magazines. Rifles with tubular magazine that holds more 5 rounds must be plug by a FFL gunsmith. The gunsmith's bill for the rifle in question has work done to rifle model #xx serial #xxx appliance to the law #xxxxx and must be with with the rifle when carrieing it in NYC. All box magazine 5 rounds too. But not in the state of NYS

I'm a 35 cal fan and the 358 Hoosier sounds like it would make a nice 16 1/2 barrel bolt carbine.

T:biggrin: NY
 

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Well, what I was thinking was a kind of spite on the IN regulation. I mean, does the law say the rifle must be "chambered" to accept only a cartridge with a case length of 1.8 or less? IF all the law says is that the barrel must be marked as chambered for that shorter-cased round, then it might not exclude an additional barrel marking - in this case, the 35 Remington. I don;t know if that makes sense. Just wondering aloud is all. There's a fellow on another forum, from Indiana, that was toying with the same idea, that is, cutting down the 35Rem case to 1.8, but still shooting it in his 35Rem rifle.
 

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I remember a thread where someone was thinking of trimming down a 444 to the legal Indiana regulation for deer hunting. My reply was "if the rifle is chamber for the full case 444 IMO it's still not legal cause it can be loaded with the full size cartridge at will" Again IMO the same will apply for a 35 rem chambered rifle.

What is being ignored is the Indiana deer hunting regulation itself and the reason for it. To the best of my understanding the reason is Indiana don't want rifles that can fire a projectile at a great distance it is for the protection of the population. As far as the wildcat cartridges with a case length no more than 1.80" I have yet to see the allowance of it in written.

T:ahhhhh: NY
 

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Hey guys, hopefully I can shed a little light on this subject. I own a gun store in Fort Wayne that specializes in Indiana legal deer cartridges. The 358wssm, 357/44 Bain and Davis, 460 S&W so on and so forth. It is my understanding that as long as your cartridge meets the 1.800 max case length and shoots a bullet of 357 or bigger you are good to go. I have had in depth conversations with several Conservation Officers and tell me they don't care what the barrel or head stamp says as long as the cartridge fits the criteria measured buy the gage they carry with them and there's no other illegal cartridges on your persons.
 

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You are correct 450AK. I trimmed the 35 REM to 1.8 and I shoot it in my 35REM marlin 336. perfectly legal. Why does people read too much in the laws? No where in the regs does it say anything about the markings on the barrel.
 

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Hey there Squirrel Drover, nice first post. I think it's because most people like too assume instead of accualy reading the law for them self or doing themselves. I sell a ton of 35 rem 1.8 at my shop but it seems like about one out of every five or six people are miss informed.
 

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I read an article on the 358 Hoosier, and they claimed velocities over 2600 fps with 180 gr bullets, and over 2500 with 200 gr bullets.
Maybe I'm wrong, but that seems
rather hard to believe from a 1.8 inch 308 case.
Does anyone here have any knowledge of this cartridge in real life.
In my experience, the 358 Winchester is capable of those velocities, whereas the 356 Winchester only comes close.
Just seems a little unrealistic to me.
 
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