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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I wouldn't hesitate with a .44mag or .41mag........but isn't the .357 kind of like Bell shooting elephant with a 7mm Mauser? Not arguing, just asking....never had a .357.
 
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Hi Tuba_Guy

In a hand gun I think the 357 is too little gun. You are right, the 44 is much more effective from a hand gun. But B-Bore has some 180gr 357 loads that are going out of a marlin carbine at 1851fps. The 357 seems to be a different animal in a rifle.

A 35 rem delivers the 180gr at 2000+fps or faster if you want. 35 rem has a very good reputation as a deer and hog getter, so the 357 is creeping up in that direction; the limiting factor would be range, so the bullet has enough impact velocity to function correctly.

Best,

Grizz
 

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Not really. I wouldn't hesitate to take a deer withing 50 yards with a .357 mag. provided I could take a good solid rest. Deliberately shooting a bear might be a "nuther whole ballgame" though. I've only shot two animals that could be called "big game" with a 38 caliber firearm. The first was a fairly small black bear with a .38/44 Smith & Wesson Outdoorsman. The .38/44 was a hot loaded .38 Spl. designed to be used in special "N" framed S&W handguns. The cartridge was the precursor of the .357 Mag. and was loaded up to be slightly hotter than +P+ .38 Spl. ammo that is restricted to law enforcment today. This was back in the late 1950s while on a church campout in the Sierra Nevada Mountains. The bear came into out camp and was dragging a woman from her tent. I had the only firearm in camp and shot the bear behind the ear. I still have one of these handguns and of all the .38 Spls. I own, it is the most accurate.
In the summer of 1967 IIRC, I was photographing a friends dogs as they cornered a 250 pound hog at Big Sur California. I was carrying an S&W Highway Patrolman (M28) with a four inch barrel. When the hog heard the click of my camera (single lens reflex) he came straight at me. I grabbed the branch of the tree I was next to and pulled myself up one handed, drew with the other hand and shot twice as the hog passed under me. The first shot went into the neck at the base of the skull and the other right between the shoulder blades. In both cases, my handloads with fairly hard cast bullets that I cast were used.
Those probably were not the best examples of .357 caliber use, but they did the job when called upon.
While I did own one of the early five screw .44 Magnums, circumstances (financial) forced me to sell it off. I didn't get another 44 until 1976, a Centennial model Ruger Super Blackhawk. I usually carry one 44 or another most of the time, but as I get older, I find myself drawn back to the milder kicking .357 mag. But then, they're only used as a back up for whatever rifle I'm carrying.
Paul B.
 

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I'm afraid to use my .44 mag Super Blackhawk agains a bear. I just bring it along to use on myself if I miss him with my rifle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Probably like Bell's elephants, the key is placement, placement, placement. I usually have the 45-70 or the .41 Bisley with me as well as the 45acp that hardly ever leaves my side. I like big, heavy bullets if it might get hairy. I really think I would rather have the .45 with 230 hardball against a small bear than a .357...but like I said, I'm just supposing.
 

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Jerry Lester and a couple of the other guys over in the Cowboy forum have slain a ton of deer with the .357 carbine. With a heavy cast bullet it should kill black bear, but it wouldn't be what I picked up if I were setting out to hunt bear.
 

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tubbythetuba said:
-snip-
I really think I would rather have the .45 with 230 hardball against a small bear than a .357...but like I said, I'm just supposing.
I don't know... a 180 grain hard cast bullet out of a .357 will penetrate a lot of meat and bone.
 

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Hello Riflemen: Speaking of pistols I wouldn't intentionaly hunt a large black bear with a 357 except in for one exception. If you have hounds and the bear is treed and you have good handloaded ammo I suppose you could safely take the bear. By a large bear I am talking 350# and larger. In a bind I would fill a old black bear full of my 357 bullets and hope for the best. My son works for a Dr. that hikes remote areas and used to use a 357 for protection and such. He has about a third of his face gone from a blackie who took a full load of 357 ammo from his revolver. All shots were from a foot or less as the guy was being chewed on. The bear died, the Dr. lived, but carries a 44 mag now. The 357 has less than 30% of the energy of the good old 30-30. The 357 is a great deer gun but what if blackie shows up? Just some thoughts, good luck, Bestlever
 

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I saw a fello worker shoot a Spike Elk with a .357 Revolver.It wasn't the prettiest or cleanest kill I have ever seen,but it worked as that was all he had in the truck on the way to work.Five shots later,we were cleaning the Spike.I couldn't tell any difference in the taste :lol: .

In the right hands just about any caliber will work with proper shot placement for the caliber.

Jayco.
 

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Ironicly, when the .357 first hit the market it was considered a "big game" pistol cartridge. Wasn't it the .357 that the Czar of Russia used to kill an American Bison while hunting here in the United States with Buffalo Bill? Or was it a .38special? :shock:

It's funny how today a .357 has become inadequate for even personal protection for a lot of gun-toters and gun-writers. Sure there are a lot of newer, more powerful handgun cartridges out today, but I'm sure the .357 hasn't lost any power since it was first introduced.

We all hear the same talk today referring to the 30/30. When it was introduced, it would drop any thing that walked in North America. But today it is considered a "light" deer cartridge.

A very good and life long friend whom was a fellow carpenter has a saying when referring to hunting. It is some what humorous but very true......

"A 4 penny nail will flatten a tractor trailer tire just as good as a railroad spike."
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I think what we are talking about is the difference between hunting a bear that might not know we are there and a pissed off bear charging or attacking. Adrenaline seems to be the dangerous culprit here.
 

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Hello rifleman,
there is a interesting article in rifle magazine I think, which ever gun rag it is that Brian Pearce writes for. Any way there is a good article that he wrote in there on the 357 being used in a rifle. He stated as someone elese here already has that the 357 is a totally different animal in a rifle. However with that said it would not be my first choice for going after a black bear either, however if that is all I had at the time I would make sure that I had some buffalo Bore ammo with one of his heavy weight offerings, then pick my shot carefully or some other ammo of like ilk.
 

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tubbythetuba said:
I think what we are talking about is the difference between hunting a bear that might not know we are there and a pissed off bear charging or attacking. Adrenaline seems to be the dangerous culprit here.
Tubby,

You are absolutely correct! The point I was trying to make, or more accurately, the question I was trying to raise is; What caliber did a man shoot a charging bear with back in the late 1800's and early 1900's?

Don't get me wrong, Tubby. When it comes to my own rear-end and a charging bear, I want to be looking down the barrel of the biggest gun in my safe!

:shock:<<<<<In any case this would be the expression on my face if it were to happen to me!
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Leverpuller said:
tubbythetuba said:
I think what we are talking about is the difference between hunting a bear that might not know we are there and a pissed off bear charging or attacking. Adrenaline seems to be the dangerous culprit here.
Tubby,

You are absolutely correct! The point I was trying to make, or more accurately, the question I was trying to raise is; What caliber did a man shoot a charging bear with back in the late 1800's and early 1900's?

Don't get me wrong, Tubby. When it comes to my own rear-end and a charging bear, I want to be looking down the barrel of the biggest gun in my safe!

:shock:<<<<<In any case this would be the expression on my face if it were to happen to me!
I've been attacked twice by something not completely dead: a **** and a large groundhog. Laugh if you will, but both of these angry critters proved to be quite tough to dispatch after wounding and quite determined to have a piece of me before departing this world. I can only imagine what even a small bear must be like. Lighting a candle to St Hubert might be a good start! Some caliber starting with a "4" might be another.
 

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Ironicly, when the .357 first hit the market it was considered a "big game" pistol cartridge. Wasn't it the .357 that the Czar of Russia used to kill an American Bison while hunting here in the United States with Buffalo Bill? Or was it a .38special?

Probably neither. The .38 Spl. came out, I believe in 1905 and the .357 mag. in 1935. I believe the Czar's hunt with Buffalo Bill was sometime in the 1880s, possibly 1890s.

When the .357 mag. first came out, Doug Wesson used it to hunt all kinds of serious North American big game including, IIRC, Kodiak Bear. I do believe he had a guide with one big rifle as a back up.

Back around 1977, I was in a gun shop in Reno Nevada. At the time, I was being considered for a job transfer to Alaska and was looking at some of the larger caliber rifles. While talking with the store owner, talk came up on the suitability of the .44 Magun for bear protection. I though the answer the fellow came up with was interesting. The handgun in question was my Ruger Super Blackhawk (new model). he said to go ahead and shoot the bear five times. When I asked him why only five times when the gun held six, he said, "Save that last one for yourself. It takes one hell of a long time to die laying out there on the ground disemboweled." I think he had a point.

Oh yeah. I didn't get the transfer. Dang it!

Paul B.
 

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Hello Riflemen: In the old days the folks didn't hunt bear with pistols if they could help it. When they had to they used a Colt 45 with a big chunk of slow moving lead and prayed :wink: The hound hunters say that it takes several shots to drop a bear from a tree with the 357 but just one with a 44 mag.. Deer are one thing as they don't get mad when they get shot or shot at. A bear just might take offense to the same shot. I'm not really a pistol hunter but the 45 Colt with a 300 grain bullet makes me feel safe. My 357 with any bullet does not. As I suggested I'm not really qualified but just have my hunch! Good luck, BestLever
 

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Tubby like in other thread for the Size of the Eastern Blacks we have, I would say yes.. it would work just fine..

For the one's you have out that way being a few hundred pounds heavier.. NOPE>>> :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I don't hunt bear, yet, anyway.......what I do, however, is spend all day in bear country, and BBQ a meal. These bears around here are used to humans and if one shows up for a meal, he's welcome to it, but if he gets feisty, well, it'll be all over. Hope it's not one with cubs, that would be a hard decision. I've always had a "bear backup", even quite awhile ago when it was only a single shot 12 with a slug. It would appear, tho, that a .357 rifle firing 180s would not be the worst thing out there. I'm comfortable with the .41mag with the .45acp as backup if six .41s don't do it. I may get a .357 someday......don't need one now, tho. It makes for a good conversation, tho, don't it? :)
 

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Hellow fellow hunters and gunmen,I do know what a .357 can
and will do to a human, and also will not do. have asked why
most police forces changed to the .40 cal , the reason being
not enough penny tration for the dollar on life
tom
 

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tallen said:
Hellow fellow hunters and gunmen,I do know what a .357 can
and will do to a human, and also will not do. have asked why
most police forces changed to the .40 cal , the reason being
not enough penny tration for the dollar on life
tom
I don't buy that. I'm betting it's because they don't chamber a lot of autos in .357 mag. I will agree that the .40 out penetrates a 9mm.
 
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