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I'm not excited about 350 myself but a buddy just bought one. He is shooting 150gr factory in Ruger BA and claims he is getting 1.5" in 3 shot groups. At 200yds he is claiming 3" with 7"drop from 100yd zero. He doesn't load and called to ask me if I would. I don't have the 350 dies. He is also telling me others are loading them with 9mm/ .356 bullets. The only advantage I can see in it is legal in straight case states and fits an AR. Pardon my lack of enthusiasm.
 

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Definition of Good Enough: Ability to walk up to whitetail and place a full-speed/heavy-bullet 357 Mag into its chest with a contact shot.
. . . from 200 yards away . . . . . . .



w/ a 16" (15" rifled) ARCarbine


. . . w/ flat point-blank aimpoint/trajectory
 

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Case capacity in H2O

30-30 - 45 grains
35 Rem - 51 grains
350 Legend - 36.5 grains

Physics are physics. You can only do so much with limited amount of space. There is no way in hell the 350 will ever come close to a 35 rem. And I'm not even a 35 rem fanboy. 356 rules!
Not so fast....

SAAMI MAP (maximum average pressure):
30-30 - 42,000 psi
35 Rem - 33,500 psi
350 Legend - 55,000 psi
(https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/350-Legend-CC-Drawing-Website.pdf)

As you said, "Physics are physics."
 

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Not so fast....

SAAMI MAP (maximum average pressure):
30-30 - 42,000 psi
35 Rem - 33,500 psi
350 Legend - 55,000 psi
(https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/350-Legend-CC-Drawing-Website.pdf)

As you said, "Physics are physics."
So I ran some numbers on quickload. The 350 legend is around 150 fps slower than the 35 Rem in the same barrel length. Tac on another 100 fps slower for a typical 16" barrel for the AR. That is with the same bullet weight. The 35 Rem actually has a SAAMI rating of 35000 psi(33500 cup). So if we are now comparing loads handloading SAAMI pressures are out. The 350 legend is maxed out on pressure. The 35 Rem is not. Let's just add a modest 150 fps to the 35 Rem. Thats 300 fps faster in the same barrel length and 400 fps faster if using a 16" barrel of a 350 legend. Physics is still physics
 
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Gentlemen: What part of Good Enough was unclear?
:star:
I agree it is good enough. It will slay deer just fine. But what it is not is a 250 yard deer gun or a 35 Rem. And they reason I like the 300 blackout better is because specific bullets are made for it and it has a shoulder. Does it have the power of the 350 legend. Nope
 

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I think that the 350 is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. We already have the .375 Win. and the 38-55 and they don't depend on the case mouth for headspace.
 

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solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
The 'problem' was a length-limited/straightwall case.
In addressing that issue, they also addressed standardized gas-gun stress-levels, dimensions, and standard AR boltface.

Neither the 38-55, nor it's 375Win offspring could satisfy those conditions.
(Phasers are a next step -- but current millennials will ban them as technologies beyond that envisioned by the 2A framers)
 

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So I ran some numbers on quickload. The 350 legend is around 150 fps slower than the 35 Rem in the same barrel length. Tac on another 100 fps slower for a typical 16" barrel for the AR. That is with the same bullet weight. The 35 Rem actually has a SAAMI rating of 35000 psi(33500 cup). So if we are now comparing loads handloading SAAMI pressures are out. The 350 legend is maxed out on pressure. The 35 Rem is not. Let's just add a modest 150 fps to the 35 Rem. Thats 300 fps faster in the same barrel length and 400 fps faster if using a 16" barrel of a 350 legend. Physics is still physics
I wanted to make sure we considered the pressure differences. Those are just as important as differences in case volume.and, yes, it too is part of the physics.

As to QuickLoad, it is a good tool for estimation and prediction. I use it myself. However, QuickLoad predictions are notoriously inconsistent and sometimes widely inaccurate. That is why the program incorporates a feature that allows you to insert real world data to sort of true it up for a particular cartridge and powder. Finally, the 350 Legend needs a relatively fast burning powder to generate good velocity in a short barrel. The specific powders being used by Winchester and Hornady may not even be available in current QuickLoad powder data. So, in short, though QuickLoad is suggesting notable velocity differences between the two cartridges using the data you entered, I would be careful about putting hard numbers on those differences.

Is the 350 Legend just a 35 Remington in different dress? Obviously not. But I do agree that the 350 comes close to the 35. It's a subjective statement. Just like saying 10mm ammo from my 6" long slide comes close to .41 Magnum. But subjective also means opinion and we all know about those.

I will also point out one last thing. Bullet shape. For tubular magazine use the 35 Remington is restricted to round nose, flat nose, or the FTX rubber tip bullets. The 350 Legend is not. In the world of comparisons between these two cartridges, advantages and disadvantages, pointy bullets is a plus for the 350.
 

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When was the last time anyone saw 375 Win practice loads or any 38-55 ammo for $9.99 a box? Oh yea, it don’t happen. And since when did the 35 Rem become the gold standard for deer hunting. I would venture to surmise that there have already been as many 350 Legend complete rifles or components to assemble your own sold in the first year as all 35 Rem rifles sold since its release. The 35 ain’t bad but come on. It’s never been real popular.
the only people real twisted up about the 350 are those that reload.
 

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Speaking of Reloading (and QuickLoad) . . .

One of the real powers of QL is the ability to explore totally uncharted territory w/ some engineering degree of safety.
Case in point in Post #142 above wherein

- I'd already determined that the Speer 180FP was just about optimal in terms of fit/ogive/weight/BC and expansion-velocity range.
- Add the 350 Legend to the Cartridges by copying the 357MAX file and adjusting for length and (measured) case capacity
- Ask QL for all powder/loads for 95% max Pressure using the Speer 180 @ max length, filtering out everything over-case capacity/under-burned
- Then sort on max velocity for that 15" (rifled-section) barrel length:



CAUTION: This post includes load data generated by calculation in QuickLOAD software based on a particular powder lot, the assumption the primer is as mild as possible, and assumptions about component, chamber and gun geometry that may not correspond well to what you have. Such data should be approached by working up from published starting loads. USE THIS DATA AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, MarlinOwners, nor the staff of MO, nor QuickLOAD's author nor its distributor assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information or information derived from it. (and it's only applicable/as-tested in one rifle) (!!!!!)

Choose RL-7 because I prefer well over 90% fill in W296/H110 and don't like Lil'Gun in unexplored territory where real testing hasn't found the pressure knee
(And RL-7 gives me a totally-full/compressed load w/ a very predictable/graceful pressure response)

Start 1.5 grain low to safely baseline against velocity the actual-as-shot powder static* burn rate in that straightwall case. *(As-shot Static burn rate starts effectively slower, Ba~0.670 instead of 0.725)

Then kick it up as you see in Post#142 with some degree of confidence that what you predict is what you get.





(Now if you really want some fun, play that same game with the cast SAECO 245gr)
 

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Discussion Starter #152
When was the last time anyone saw 375 Win practice loads or any 38-55 ammo for $9.99 a box? Oh yea, it don’t happen. And since when did the 35 Rem become the gold standard for deer hunting. I would venture to surmise that there have already been as many 350 Legend complete rifles or components to assemble your own sold in the first year as all 35 Rem rifles sold since its release. The 35 ain’t bad but come on. It’s never been real popular.
the only people real twisted up about the 350 are those that reload.
Lets see--35 Rem has been selling in all its forms since 1906. I am not buying your argument that the 350 has outsold the 35 Rem during the past few months. And--the 350 definitely ain't the gold standard either.
 
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Several guys around here have bought the 350 legend, 4 personal friends in the last 2 weeks have bought one, for the simple fact they don’t reload, practice ammo is $10-$11 a box and hunting ammo is $16-$18.


Reports on the 180gr hunting stuff seem consistent, shoots through and kills deer. Reports on 150gr ammo are kills deer, don’t expect an exit.


I don’t have one but I can see where guys would like them.
 

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It will fit in a CZ 527 and make the neatest, compact 5.5 pound bolt carbine for straight-cased rifle States. It's a .223 Rem/5.56 NATO case blown out straight and trimmed to 1.71", so brass is essentially free. Range pick-ups should provide all the shell cases a guy needs forever. It's a 200 yard brush cartridge, and it gives hunters in straight-case States another choice.
I've had this thought too
 
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Discussion Starter #155
Since this thread has run its course--time to shut it down.
 
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