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My brother bought his first Marlin recently. He got an older (1951) 336SC in 35 Remington. We took it out Sunday and tried out some older factory ammo. It was Winchester white box loaded with power points in 200gr. He has it equipped with a Lyman peep. I was not in on his clean-up job, but I suspect that he needs to clean some copper fouling out of it. We would shoot 5 rounds at a time. Each time loading in each individual round. We took our time and never let the barrel heat up. Temp. for Kansas was very moderate, and even the wind was calm. What I am saying, is that we had no excuses for the occasional wild flyer that would come every 3 to 5 shots. We had several rounds touching and then one wouldn't even be on paper. I am more consistant of a shot than that. Even with irons. Any ideas? I am going to inspect the bore a little closer next time. Wish that I had a bore scope. Thanks for any ideas.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
All at 100 yards. We had 40 rounds put through, and 5 rounds did not make the paper. Excluding those (wherever they might be), it looks like a real shooter. I am very puzzled. :lol: Since you are reading Brad, it must be that inherent inferiority you keep speaking of. I am just holding it to the standards I usually get with my 30-30! :lol: :lol:
 

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You might have a problem with the bullet pushing into the case if you load up the tube with 5 or 6 rounds.Try some remington 200gr factory loads and load them one at a time if that works, load up the tube and see if that flyer comes back.Sounds like a ammo problem to me.

Riflemen10x
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
They were loaded singly. I tend to agree. He had some silvertips I wanted to try. He reloads, and we will fine tune this gun later.
 

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Now wait a minute, I have not disparaged the 30-30 regarding it's accuracy. I believe it to be, on average, a very accurate round! (I know you are kidding... :wink: ).

I have no explanation other than it could be factory loads. I do have a question -- my .35 seems to be very sensative to a hot barrel. If you touched 40 rounds how did you keep the barrel cool? And have you swabbed the bore for copper fouling?

It will be interesting to check the accuracy when shooting reloads. Please post your findings.

SS
 

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Doc, I suggest that your brother buy a box each of Remington and Federal .35 Rem shells. I had a similar problem with my 1953 model 336SC. I started off using Remington shells with the 200 grain corelokt bullet, and was getting 4 and 5 inch groups at 100 yards. Needless to say, I was disappointed, and that was from a benchrest and with a good scope mounted. I'm not the best shot, but I'm not that bad. So, I tried Federal and Winchester shells. The Federals were a little better and the Winchesters were much better, around 2 or 2 1/2 inch groups for 3 shots. I'm trying to improve that with handloads, but so far haven't had much success. I'll keep working on it and will hunt with the Winchester 200 grain Power Points in the meantime.

Would also suggest your brother thoroughly clean the bore. Mine looked clean but actually had layers of hard fouling in it and probably hadn't had a proper cleaning in many years. Good luck.
 

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I have a tendency to 'fling' one occasionally when shooting aperture sights. It's hard to simultaneously: center the bead in the aperture, center the bead on target, hold the rifle consistently, control breathing, put recoil out of mind, judge wind, fight light anomalies, and make the trigger break cleanly at just the right moment. As much as I hate to admit it, it's tough to blame "occasional flyers" on any mechanical failure. I suppose 1 in 5 bullets could be undersized or unbalanced, or 1 in 5 cartridges could be loaded inconsistently with the rest, but I believe the chances of this with name-brand factory ammo are slim.

I think you will determine the cause(s) of your flyers soon and eliminate it (them). Keep practicing.

Live well
 

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Every rifle has it's own personality, I had a 35 Rem 336 that would put the Federal factory 200 gr. loads into one ragged hole at 50 yards. Sold it like a fool and had not replaced it for 20 odd years untill the other day partialy because I knew I would tend to hold the new one to an unrealistic standard that was set by an exeptional weapon I had the pleasure to own and the foolheartiness to sell.

Haven't shot the new one yet and I say I'll be happy if she will hold an inch to inch and a half at 50, but deep down I know I am expecting more.

Larry
 

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Maybe not 1 hole but 1/2 inch at 50 would be nice.

Larry
 

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sounds like a barrel leading problem to me, ammo would be my next guess
 

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All my Marlins, 35 Rem included, are very sensitive to ammo. The Rem 150's didn't shoot worth a hoot, even with a scope mounted. Tried the Rem 200 Core-lokt, and Voila! One-inch groups. :shock:

I worked up some light loads for my son this past week, 158-grain HP's over 9.2 Unique. At 50 yards, the W-W slugs were in very erratic groups, all over the place. Tried the Remington bullet, same load, and got three straight 5-shot one-holers. Apparently, I got lucky. Load development usually takes more than one trip to the range! :D

I'd buy a box of every factory load you can find, clean the barrel thoroughly, and test it again. Barrel heating, at least in my guns, makes for a lot of vertical stringing. Take your time.

PJ
 

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Dr. A;

I would suspect the rifle first of all. Not that there's anything really wrong with it that a little TLC won't fix.

Check the torqueing of the screws on all the hardware pertaining to the magazine, barrel bands, and forend.

On the .35 I have, until I tinkered with it and found that after 10-15 shots, some of the screws would start loosneing and cause errant shots. But not as bad as what you related.

I found that with all screws tightned snug, but not heavily torqued, and locktited that my accuracy improved dramatically.

Also, be careful not to rest the gun on the magazine tube when shooting it. Depending on the rifle and fit of forend and magazine tube and other hardware, it can cause the rifle to throw some "into orbit!" if you're not paying close attention.

This holds true to most rifles, not just the Marlins.

But, I've gotten some bad bullets along through the years too.

Only way to know for sure is to experiment.
 

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I suggest that you put a scope on the rifle to see if it is a sight problem or rifle/ammo problem. That way you will know. The scope can be removed after you are satisfied that it is a rifle/ammo problem.
 

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GooseGestapo said:
Dr. A;

I would suspect the rifle first of all. Not that there's anything really wrong with it that a little TLC won't fix.

Check the torqueing of the screws on all the hardware pertaining to the magazine, barrel bands, and forend.

On the .35 I have, until I tinkered with it and found that after 10-15 shots, some of the screws would start loosneing and cause errant shots. But not as bad as what you related.

I found that with all screws tightned snug, but not heavily torqued, and locktited that my accuracy improved dramatically.

Also, be careful not to rest the gun on the magazine tube when shooting it. Depending on the rifle and fit of forend and magazine tube and other hardware, it can cause the rifle to throw some "into orbit!" if you're not paying close attention.

This holds true to most rifles, not just the Marlins.

But, I've gotten some bad bullets along through the years too.

Only way to know for sure is to experiment.
GG,
Fully agree with all ur suggestions, so many bits hangin' off the barrel, temperature change leads to different torques, my own feeling is barrel bands are one of the worst culprits.
That and ur rest technique. I've only recently acquired a front rest and with a shot filled bag, thought that I'd instantly be getting better groups.
Not so with the tube fed leveractions. Each rifle is different, but for the most consistent I've found that just off my elbows with my forehand resting on the rest is the best. I also prefer the dovetailed lug for the forearm tip and the magazine tube end. That with the half magazine 'sporting rifle' configuration is proving to be the most consistent shot to shot.
Cheers,
R*2
 

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I don't post much but I have a Q. How old and well stored was that ammo anyway? It was old enough to mention is it old enough to cause erratic pressure? I have some old Federal 12 guage loads that have been around long enough the box is collectable that did some funny things...

I recently aquired a 336 in 35 Rem made in '76. the only two times I shot it the bullets would walk, from left to right. Singly loaded and fired slow enough that the barrel was warm but not hot. First round 2" left second 1" left next 3 centered 11/2" high at 50 yds. Group for the last three shots averaged both range sessions under 1" close to 3/4". Until I get dies and bullets I'm stuck, if you can call it that, with the Remingtion 200 gr. CL Where and what I hunt if I didn't like to shoot so much I could live with that.

Heres the edit. I forgot to mention that once the barrel either fouled or warmed up enough to settle in groups for 5 shots would hover around 1" easily. I was using a 4X Nikon and a so so rest. Looking forward hearing more about this am very new ot Marlin levers but latley it seems every time I turn around there is another one in the safe. That happen to anyone else?
 
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Bman,

You said it, once the barrel was fouled, it settled in and grouped great. So, it's a clue, don't get too industrious about cleaning the barrel. Lots of guys just let it be until time to retire the gun after the season.

Try leaving it fouled between shooting sessions and see if you still have the fliers. Might solve it....

Grizz
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
As an up date you may all may or may not be interested. The gun has done better (much better) with reloads and cleaning the bore VERY well with copper fouling solvent. That thing was green for 10 patches straight. Flyers now non-existant, and the bore looks great. I would agree the ammo is substandard as well. We got some good grouping and then one would leave the county.
 

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I'm glad to hear your flier problem seems to be solved. I had similar trouble with an old Mis surp. Every time I clean it I seem to get more copper out than I put in and each trip to the range it gets a bit more accurate.

Grizz. I plan on doing just that. I slugged the barrel since my last outing so it is pretty clean right now. Currently I plan to put a few through it to foul the bore and let the thing cool while I shoot a bunch of other stuff then shoot for groups and final scope adjustment.
 

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Dr. A,
Looks like you got good results from your copper solvent and technique.

What solvent did you use? And how did you apply it?

Always interested in effective cleaning techniques.
 
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