[marlin_james]

I am not familiar with the 338 Marlin Express rounds, so this is not meant to be anything against Remington but I'm trying to understand. Comparing the Hornady and Remington rounds, it looks like for the same price, the Remington is slower, drops quicker, and carries less energy from muzzle to 400 yards. I can't see the advantage of the Remington except perhaps a reduced recoil?

Numbers taken from Hornady's site and Remington's site:

(click on 338 MX and hit compare) http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/rifle-cartridges/rifle-cartridges.aspx

http://www.hornady.com/store/338-Marlin-Express-200-GR-FTX-LEVERevolution/

 

[big medicine]

I'm with you. I can't see any advantage to the Remington.

 

[Halwg]

The advantage is that folks want a bullet that stays together and doesn't damage as much meat as the FTX. Ballistically the 250 gr is going to be inferior, and make the 338 more of a 200 - 250 yard round rather than a 300 - 350 yard round.

I actually imagine that recoil is going to be greater with the 250 gr round, so lesser recoil definitely won't be an advantage. It's just another bullet option. It would be like me shooting a 180 gr RN in my 30-06. What is the point to that?

 

[Butch 72]

I can't see a downside to this....more brass/bullets available.more public exposer to the .338. the core-loct has a tremendous following among Hunters and it seems Remington is makeing a statement by producing the ammo. I have read alot of feedback from shooters that will have nothing to do with the Hornady ammo because of inconsistant performance. this could sway them and down the road We may get more choices in bullet weight.

 

[Lance]

I like big heavy bullets in leveractions, I'm looking forward to using the 250 gr. rem. I just received 5 boxes from midway usa today.

 

[GooseGestapo]

RE: the .338ME 200gr FTX vs. .338ME Remington 250gr CorLokts.
You're missing the point........
The FTX is designed such that it amounts to a match hollow-point with the flexible tip to prevent primer ignition and act as an expansion plug to initiate expansion. The expansion of the FTX is what makes it such a drammatic killer. The normal impact velocity at ranges 100-250yds for which the bullet was intended give very good performance on LIGHT BIG GAME UP TO ELK.
However, the characteristics that make this bullet so good from the .338ME Hornady ammo, make it less than desireable against LARGE BIG-GAME, meaning MOOSE AND BROWN/GRIZZLY BEAR.
It's not kinetic energy (ft./lbs) that kills large game, it's putting a large hole in the organs that make it tick.... Heart, lungs, and liver as well as central nervous system. This requires deep penetration. Modest expansion helps, too. Excessive expansion will hinder deep penetration.
The 250gr CorLokt is designed with a tapered jacket with a thick mid-section (hence core-lock with a thinner heel section) and a thin foward section to allow initial controlled expansion.
Exect the 250gr Corlokt to penetrate 50-100% deeper than the 200gr FTX This is the point behind the different/heavier bullet. The sectional density of the 250gr bullet is .313 vs. .250 for the FTX. My feelings are that most of the people using the 250gr bullet will seldom shoot them past 100yds anyhow. The minor difference in kinetic energy (ft./lbs.) is meaningless. For the moose and bear hunters in Alaska, the 250gr Corlokt load is the one that might really put the .338ME on the "map" as far as popularity/usefulness is concerned.
We'll have to see how the ammo actually performs from real firearms and in the field to tell for sure. My fear is that the actual real-world velocity is going to be 100-150fps below quoted factory test velcities. That will be bad for the cartridge's popularity as it will affect real world performance. We should know soon, now.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Halwg; the 250gr Corlokt will be more like shooting the 220gr Corlokt RN through your .30/06.

Have you ever shot any of these?

Worst shot-up deer I ever saw was the first one I ever saw. It was in 1972. The deer was shot running away from the hunter. Impact took the deer in the right ham. Exit was through the left shoulder. (42-48" penetration). The bullet did most of the expansion in the stomach/intestins and liver. The left lung was also "emulsified". When cut open, the guts just ran out on the ground. Most of the deer was unedible......
The 180gr RN is almost legendary in N. Maine for use on moose, and large black bear. Also, accuracy is phenomenal in most rifles.... I once shot some through a National Match M-1 Garand. My brother and I shot 10rds each. (were "shooting them up for the brass". Boy were we dumb back then!). All 20rds from 2 shooter shooting off had went into a 5" 25yd pistol bulls-eye at 100yds !
So, yeah, whats the point?
Uh, killing very, very large things very dead, and very quickly -before they do the same to you........thats what!
It actually took Remington several tries to get the 180gr PtSpt. Corlokt right. They had first lack of expansion issues, then too much expansion, before they got it just right. Nowdays, my favorite bullet for my .300RemUltMag is the 180gr PtSpt. Corlokt. Even at 3,300fps impact velocities, I've had them penetrate 24-30" of deer and exit, and then didn't do as much damage as a 130gr Sierra from a .270. YMMV.

 

[Halwg]

I'm not implying that the Core-Lokt is a bad bullet, far from it. What I feel is that the 338 ME is not designed for the heavy 338 bullets. With the short, stubby case, a 250 gr bullet is going to take up so much powder space that velocities are going to suffer. And I agree with Goose's speculation that the actual velocities of this bullet are going to be significantly slower than Remington is claiming when shot out of the 338 MX, particularly.

My feeling is Hornady missed the boat with the FTX bullet, and now Remington is missing it with the Core-Lokt. The FTX should have been a 180 gr bullet from the get-go. The core-lokt or other soft point bullets for the 338 ME should be 200 - 225 grains. Then I think we would have a very user friendly cartridge.

 

[336ER]

The .338ME was never designed to be a deer round. It was designed with larger, elk sized game in mind (the .308ME was already out). That being said, most of us don't regularly hunt elk and simply like the idea of a medium for our all-around rifle or even for a deer only rifle. I've been a "moderate medium" fan for over 25 years. I think Hornady has done a fine job giving us a bullet with good BC, trajectory and weight at 200gr and also making it stout enough for elk. Remington has tried to answer the call for a heavier, deeper penetrating load with their 250gr CL and I'll bet they did just that.

Heck even the great .358 is not a long range rifle with a 250gr bullet and Remington's factory 250gr .35 Whelen load is no long range star at 2400 FPS either, but I have used both for short range purposes for bear and hogs and think they are great. I believe the new 250gr bullet is meant for big critters at closer ranges and turns the .338ME into a great black bear rifle for hunting over bait as well. Of course the 200gr FTX can and will do the job there too, but many simply like a big heavy bullet at moderate velocities for that kind of thing.

 

[big medicine]

I have shot at least 15 deer with the 338mx and I have yet to have a bullet that has "come apart". Out of all the deer that I have shot only one didn't fall in his tracks, he went roughly 50-75 yards. I have yet to recover a bullet. This is the exit wound. The buck was dead, he just didn't realize it. For shorter ranges the 250gr RN isn't going to matter much for ballistic drops. But you start getting out past 200 yards it will make a huge difference. Where I hunt, I need the long ballistics offered with the FTX. As you can see with this pic there was not much for blood shot meat. It was about a 220 yard shot.

 

[Marlin32]

So how do we get someone (the big boys or a smaller custom shop) to give us the bullet we want?
I have tried to no avail to even get responses.

I would love to see that Rem bullet @ 225grains and 2300 fps! (or another bullet like a speer or NP)

At leas now we have the bullet maybe. I am waiting to see how this bullet gets handloaded. If velocity can be increased a smidge, will be the ticket.

 

[CalvinMD]

If the 250gr in the 338MX performs like a 170gr Core-lokt does in a 30-30 but on a grander scale for bigger game...I wont mind keeping my shots within 250yds ...I rarely get shots more than 100-150 anyway...when I do I have the 30-06 ...sometimes you just have to trust in yourself to predict and plan for the most probable situation

 

[jeepster360mag]

I say any NEW offering for the 338ME is a good thing for everyone. ;D The 200FTX shoots flat & opens fast. The 250CL will be slower, of course, & offer some real punch for the 400lb.+ type animals. The 250CL bullet will be a longer bullet but not by much I bet. Most "tipped" bullets are very long for there wt. A 225gr bullet would be more of a compromise type bullet but i like the 250gr choice better myself. Time will tell I guess. A 180gr bullet just isn't needed IMHO unless it is a monolithic type.............also very long for there wt.

John

 

[HowdyC]

To my way of thinking Rem's load is a welcome addition and only adds to the fact that they are committed to this cartridge and hopfully Lever Gun combo.

I know for a fact that the Hornady 250 gr'er is no longer than their 200 gr. FTX so that the space for the powder is not decreased at all. BTW the Hawk series of 180 and 200Gr FN bullets are much shorter than the 200 FTX as is their 230 rp bullet. So powder space is NOT effected at all. Now a 160 or 185 gr. Mono is a horse of a different color and will infrenge on powder space.

 

[Halwg]

Lots of interesting opinions on this cartridge. Regardless of what folks think, I can easily live with the 200 gr FTX loading. I think it's an amazing deer round, and the 2 deer I have shot so far (I only had 2 days to hunt with it during our late season) were not going anywhere. One was shat at approx 150 yards, the other around 60.

In my opinion, this is a deer sized game cartridge, even though it's a .338 bullet. I just don't think it's pushing heavy enough bullets fast enough to be a viable huge game/nasty critter with sharp teeth and claws load. I don't hunt that stuff, but if I did, I wouldn't be using the 338 ME. (this is strictly my opinion, and if you want to hunt bear with a .223 have at it!) To me it will do everything you need in a deer cartridge out to 300+ yards, and it does it with less recoil and muzzle blast, than my 30-06. I like the cartridge (a lot), but for my hunting I would like to see a 180 gr bullet rather than a 250 gr. More choices are good, it gives everyone a chance to pick what they need for their particular style of hunting and the game they are pursuing. So keep the choices coming!

 

[Mikeflies]

I agree with Halwg, I like the fact that more choices are coming out and let them keep coming. It seems like everyone here will have the option of bullet type/size soon enough. I don't think all the large bullet manufactors will get in on the the 338me band wagon, but hopefully the one's who do will pay attention to the wants of the Marlin owners and get it done. Just my 2 cents.

 

[big medicine]

So how do we get someone (the big boys or a smaller custom shop) to give us the bullet we want?
I have tried to no avail to even get responses.

I would love to see that Rem bullet @ 225grains and 2300 fps! (or another bullet like a speer or NP)

At leas now we have the bullet maybe. I am waiting to see how this bullet gets handloaded. If velocity can be increased a smidge, will be the ticket.

Write Steve Hornady and tell him you want a Monoflex bullet for the 338mx. I was at the Hornady plant yesterday and spoke with one of the techs about it. I believe it is in the works but the more they hear it the more they realize the demand.

 

[Halwg]

Write Steve Hornady and tell him you want a Monoflex bullet for the 338mx. I was at the Hornady plant yesterday and spoke with one of the techs about it. I believe it is in the works but the more they hear it the more they realize the demand.

I'm definitely going to send an e-mail.

 

[GooseGestapo]

I too am glad of the 250gr offering, however, I also believe that it would have been better in 230gr. The outstanding Winchester 230gr "Failsafe" had a sterling reputation from the .338wm.

We'll just have to see how the bullet performs. It's in the same league as the 155-160gr bullets that perform so well from the 6.5mm cartridges of the late 1890's and early 1900's. Very deep penetration and launched in the low 2,000fps range. With the high s.d. and a thickened mid-section, it should penetrate very, very well. Question is: how fast is it traveling, and how soft is the point-meaning how much dose it expand initially.

Yes, something along the line of a 170gr .30/30 Corlokt "on steroids" is what we're talking about. I too am a believer in the 170gr Corlokt. I launch them at ~2,300fps from my Marlin(Glenfield M-30). Though since the introduction of the .338ME, I doubt that it'll ever visit the woods again....

I too, would like to see an additional 180gr FTX and a 175gr "Monoflex".
However, my two "bang-flops" on deer this year yeilded no complaints. Neither from me or the two rapidly deceased deer..........
As they used to say, "the proof is in the pudding".....

 

[Mikeflies]

I sent an email to Hornady as well. Let's hope they hear us.