Marlin Firearms Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Shot 2-7/8" group with 3-5/8" mean target-center relative true position circle, from the bench, at 100 yds, on 2-7-2005. Today got 10" group with 13-3/4" mean target-center relative true position circle, at 100 yds, from the bench. I got a better pattern today(though not located as well) sitting on the bench. 8-7/8" group with 16" MTPC, at 100 yds.

The wind was variable today 8-15, where as on 2-7-2005 it was less than 5. This should have only added 3 or 4 inches to my scores though.

Both the bench groups were shot with factory Win 150 gr PP, and the un-supported pattern was factory Win 170 gr PP.

What's up with this? Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks to anyone who's able to help.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,589 Posts
Scoped? sight loose? leading/copper in the bore? Same bullet diameter?
check screws to see if one is loose/was tightened too tight?
 
G

·
Yup Sure-Shot is on the right track.

What did you do to the gun? Did you take it apart? What changed?

Marlins shoot their screws loose, but over tightening is as bad as loose screws, so I keep checking them.

Try the 25 yard range with open sights and see what it does...

Hope you find the culprit

Grizz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Changed nothing. Shooting factory iron, factory ammo. Cleaned only with patches, solvent, and oil, last two times out before yesterday, but those sessions only totaled 34 rounds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,220 Posts
defcon9,

Is this a new rifle?

Since you did nothing to the rifle, as Sure-Shot said you may want to tighten some screws, pay sprcial attention to the barrel band screw. Tighten it just past snug and keep an eye on it.

From your post I assume that your second group was with a cool barrel?

Allow me to share a similar experience with you. I shot a friend's .44mag 1894, iron sights, 100 yds. Groups were about 4.5", high end. I truly enjoyed shooting this rifle and bought ammo (the same brand and weight) so I could shoot it again next time. About a month later I was lucky to get a 10" group, nothing changed (at the time I did not know to service screw tension). Waited for the barrel to cool to no avail.
Later the rifle was scoped, no problem getting 2-3" groups, even with a hot barrel. Off hand shots were only an inch or two larger. Same rifle, same ammo, temps were about 15 degrees warmer but that would not have made a 7" difference.

Don't know why you experienced your spread but my first two groups, about 5-6 shots each, were probably luck, I needed a scope to shoot consistantly.

I hasten to add that if you have good vision this may not be your problem.

My experience only, worth what you paid for it.

SS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks all, I'll check that screw tension. The rifle is a 1976 336C in .30-30. Got it new when I was a kid. I usually have a couple minutes between shots, to get close enough to see where the shot hit with 10x50 bi. Barrell was slightly warm when I finished up. Never paid much attention to the scientific aspects of shooting until recently. It has usually hit whatever I shot at.

I haven't done any deer or bear hunting in the past 20+ years, so I set up a range to have myself and the rifle at the top of our games when hunting season comes around this year.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
154 Posts
Grizz_ said:
Yup Sure-Shot is on the right track.

...

Marlins shoot their screws loose... so I keep checking them.

...

Grizz
That's been our experience likewise - when the groupsizes go south for no obvious reason: one grabs the smithing screwdriver from the range kit and gives all the receiver screws a gentle tightening [the screw on the left side of the receiver, and the one on the bottom where the mag goes into the receiver, when they get loose seem to have the greatest adverse affect on the shooting YMMV]. Seem to see this the most on 1894s's - 41mag and 44mag... but they all will disassemble themselves over time - 1894cl, 336 and/or 1895's.

do shoot straight (but make sure it's not partially disassembled first),
greg
www.gmdr.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,048 Posts
The bands make world of differece.. loosen them and just snug,, then go from there,, you can fine tune the harmonics of the load that way to shoot the best that it can.. but changing even a lot number on ammo can have changes in impact.. I usually try to buy 4 boxes the same lot number.. athough not match ammo.. its usually close in charge and wt..
Shooting off bags.. did you position the front bags the same exact spot??? I have found just ahead of lever and not that much on the forearm works best that way it won't change anything.. the tube and barrel are free to move and I can adjust the tension with the screws.. (Back one first on mine)..

Double , Triple check the mounts,, and scope its real easy to have movement and not know it.. also is the scope new or is old and maybe won't hold zero anymore.. (rare, but happens.)..
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,521 Posts
Try taping it to a Winchester overnight as punishment......

Sometimes they can get a little hardheaded...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
defcon9,
Funny thing, I have never tried to shoot groups with factory iron sites. My guess is that it is not the gun at all. 100 yards is a long distance with factory iron sites. Shooting those first groups was very good with factory iron sites. Forget it and shoot things that you dont have to measure anymore. Problem solved. If you really want to measure what the gun will do than put a low power scope on it.
PB
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
18,033 Posts
Gee Shum8, I think that qualifies as cruel and unusual punishment! Besides, you might wind up with a corrupt Marlin if it hangs out with the wrong crowd. Bad influence and all. You can do your own "tough love" experiments, but my Marlins are staying pure. :wink: Although I admit I do sometimes let my little Henry 22 hang out with them, he looks up to them as role models.

Papajohn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I don't have a Winchester! I guess I could strap it to the kid's air rifle. HA..HA..HA.. :lol:

Maybe I'll take the 39A along with us on the next shooting trip. At this rate, that 39A will show up the 336C. That should get it's attention! He..he.. :lol:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,048 Posts
You do realize a very slight movement will move POI way off at 100 with open sites.. holding it tighter or loose against shoulder , chin or both will change POI...
Are you using bags to shoot off??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
564 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Plastic ice cream bucket, that I carry ammo, spent casings, and accessories in.

I've checked all the screw tensions, and adjusted some. Scrubbed, oiled, and dried the bore. Made a new target, with a 4" dark grey center(old design had alternating dark grey/white every 2" in diameter until 2" diameter, then colors alternated at 1", 1/2", and 1/4". Not good for 100 yds.) for better sight picture. If the wind's not blowing much, I plan to give her a try today, after it warms up a little.

If I can put 4 out of 5 in the 4" center consistantly, I'll be happy. Then I'm going to burn as much ammo as I can through the 39A offhand, to try and steady myself back up to where I was when I was 17.

Everybody called me "deadeye" back then. If they all knew that I had trouble keeping everything on an 8 1/2 x 11 piece of paper, at 100 yds offhand, I'd never hear the end of it.

I just can't afford all the .30-30 ammo for the practice I need. Even re-loading. So I'll just have to practice offhand with the 39A and cross check now and then with the 336C, once I know that I have it doing all it can do with factory iron.

I plan to try resting the hand I'll be gripping the forend with on the towel-covered ice cream bucket.

Once I feel more confident offhand, I'll make my final POI adjustments.

If this doesn't sound like a sound approach, by all means, BE CRITICAL!

Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,048 Posts
Sounds like darn good start..
I would just roll towel tight and use only on the very rear near the lever.. not spread out.. just a tight roll... keep as much as you can off the forearm......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
26 Posts
Defcon9,

Check the screw for the rear sight. Mine went loose and was way out of wack. How? Maybe shooting, maybe bumped????? (See levergun postal scores) I shoot a 4 7/8" at 100yd's from the kneeling position.
 
G

·
You might want to try letting the barrel sit overnight with a good bore cleaner like Wipe-out: http://www.paulcousa.com/wipeout.htm

I've given friends a squirt or two of this stuff, after they've sworn that their rifles are absolutely clean only to watch layers of copper, burned powder and flakes of lead being removed just by the foam alone; no brushing. I'm always amazed at how rifle groups tighten up after using Wipe-out, as have my friends been.
Testimonials here: http://www.paulcousa.com/testim.htm
Hope you can find the solution to your problem, good luck and have fun.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,589 Posts
So Defcon9 did you get out to the range? How did it shoot?
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top