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My other 35 rem. is a standard 336 20" barrel. On 35Remingtons recommendations I have been working on loads for the 200 grain remington rn bullet. I have tested 748, Rel-7, and IMR 3031. Loads were worked up to 40.5 grains of 748. Surprizingly fps only reached 1854 with that load. Had it sighted and shooting this load so I only checked a couple of rounds that I had left. Next came the Rel-7. 33 grains gave 2013-2035 fps. 33.5 gave 2086-2109 fps. 34 grains gave 2073-2103. IMR 3031 with 37.5 grains varied from 2076 to 2113. Almost the same with 38 grains. 2076-2116. At 38.5 grains it tightened up. 2143-2150. These were just 3 shot strings. I didn't have anything any higher on the 3031 loaded yet. Right now I'm inclined to load the 38.5 load and start seeing what it will do in the accuracy department. I wasn't trying to hold very tight while testing the fps but, I had very reasonable groups on the paper. I may have to double check my 748 to see if I did something wrong in my scale set-up. My 3031 is old. It cost me $3.50 a can. Just opened the second can. 8) Thanks, Rick
 

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This is very interesting to me. I have some comparisons of my own to make with Rick's results, and it shows why we gotta start low with handloads and work up.

With some loads, my rifles get the same velocities as reported here, in others, my rifles show a lot of difference. It's late, but I want to add some more comment Friday night.
 

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What I ment to get across about the cost and age of my 3031 powder is that it is 30 years old. I have at least seven of the old Dupont powders on hands. Their age varies. I have stuff from mine and my dads supplies. I have been reloading since the sixtys' and some other powders may be just as old. Still good but old. I often use manuals of the same age as the powder if I've got them. [Boy, I wish we still had Rel-11 for 30-30] Point is with this much age variance you have to start low and work up because yes burning rates can change a little over time. I had been exclusively bowhunting since '76 until recently and this is like a refresher course for all the stuff I've forgotten. I love it! I hope that someday 35Rem. decides to take all that expertise and help the 30-30 owners as well. Keep it coming. Rick Still scratching my head over my 748 results. Going to redo them sometime just to make sure.
 

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IMR 3031 is a powder very familiar to me; I've used it for about everything in the .35. When doing some shooting with various powders in duplicating handloads printed in older handloading manuals, I discovered that IMR 3031 produces velocities with newly manufactured powders that are practically indistinguishable from the velocities listed in the older handloading manuals using 30+ year old 3031. It did not hurt that much of this data was worked up in a 336 Marlin very similar to the ones I own.

Rick's velocities with IMR 3031 are very similar-for all practical purposes absolutely identical- to the velocities produced in my two 336's and my friend Dave's (7-30 Waters on the Marlin Forum) beautifully stocked 336. All have 20 inch barrels. I cannot recommend 3031 too highly, as it is this sort of consistency over the years that speaks so well of its manufacture. It is also suitable for loading the 200 to 2200 fps, and Rick merely needs to increase the charge until he obtains that velocity level. This requires around 39-39.5 grains in my rifles and I'd expect the same in Rick's. If this is done, please do so in "normal" temperatures, ideally in the fifty to seventy degree range, so you have a baseline. Velocities obtained in very cold or very hot conditions will show some variation (lower or higher velocities) as 3031 is temperature sensitive, but not overly so in most hunting conditions. It's not worth worrying about in Nebraska or any more southern locale. BTW, the 37.5 grain charge of 3031 is IMR's recommended SAAMI max load for the 200 RN and is as close to a classic load for the .35 as exists on this planet. Bumping the charge 1 to 2 grains produces a mild +P version. IMR 3031 actually is slower burning in the .35 Remington than many powders listed as being "slower" on powder burn rate charts.

The charges of 3031 Rick lists also show another phenomenon when powders start to get compressed by the bullet and affect ignition. Adding a half grain or grain of powder may show the same velocity as the lighter charge, then as more powder is added, will start climbing again. Some of this is due to chronograph variations, and some of it is due (I think) to the compressed powder allowing less free passage of the primer flame through the powder charge-ignition changes slightly.

One of the "historical" data books I have shows 41.5 grains IMR 3031 behind the Speer 180 flatnose for over 2400 fps. When tried in my rifles, this obtained 2360 fps. The charge goes more than halfway up the neck in the .35 case, and I've had people I've corresponded with complain there was no room to seat the bullet. All I can say is there is plenty of room for the bullet, and the powder compression is mild compared to that needed with the 220 Speer in full power loads. Since the load density is 100+ percent, a very desirable circumstance, velocity variations are often lower than with powder charges occupying less case volume.

With slower powders, like H4895, I usually get somewhat higher extreme spreads than faster powders with the lighter bullets like 180's, even though both may be compressed in normal safe loads.

With Reloder 7, Rick's rifle is about 100 fps slower than mine with identical charges. This is manufactured in Sweden and differs from the data in many manuals, which used the powder that was manufactured in the U.S. before Alliant shifted production overseas. It appears to get the same velocity with the same charge weight as before, though, at least in the .35 Remington. It is a little slower than 4198 and produces the most velocity with the least charge weight of any of the "normal" .35 Remington powders. I figure maximum suitable bullet weight for Reloader 7 is 200 grains due to its faster burn rate. Do NOT substitute a 200 grain spitzer for the 200 grain RN without dropping the charge of Reloder 7, as the long bearing surface and deep seating needed with the 200 spirepoints sets up much higher pressure than the 200 RN's. (Only load these one at a time in a tube magazine). 2200 fps is safely attainable with 200 RN's and Reloder 7 in 20 inch barrels, and it really shines, velocitywise, with 125 and 158 grain pistol bullets because of their light weight for the caliber. 125's, 150's and 158's often run out of room in the .35 case using slower powders before high velocities are reached. By the way, good luck finding the 150 PSP's. They are not currently offered for sale as handloading components.

As for explaining Rick's results with 748, I can't. Normally, in my rifles 748 behaves very much like H335, and 39.0 grains produces 2130-2135 fps with 200 RN's and 42.0 grains gets 2300-2380 with 180's, depending upon temperature. I am a relatively recent user of 748, as I already had H335 and didn't see any need to buy it. I was curious about its performance, though, and bought some. I find it very useful; in Rick's case I'd try something else.

I guess the message Rick's data drives home is to take nothing for granted, and if you're handloading there is no excuse for not having a chronograph. They are priced so low these days that one simply must have one to separate good performing loads from the also rans. If you don't know your velocities, you really don't have a handle on the performance or the safety of your loads. A load that performed well for me could be a dog for someone else.

Rick, looks like 3031 is gonna be a winner for you.
 

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Just work up the H4895 load in my 366D 18.5 inch barrel.

Remington case
Federal 210M match primers
Rem CoreLokt 200 RN
Temp. 50 degrees F
5 shot strings

40 .0 gr H4895
Ave. velocity: 2139fps
Vel range: 22fps
Std Deviation: 9

40.5gr H4895
Ave. velocity: 2162fps
Vel range: 33 fps
Std Deviation: 14

The Remington factory 200gr load averaged 1937 fps, range of 76 fps, & Std. Dev. of 31.
The BuffaloBore 220 load averaged 1976 fps, range of 53 fps, & Std. Dev. of 20.

I like to say thanks to 35REMINGTON and others for their postings, very informative. I think I now have a good Michigan deer load. I have never needed to shoot past about 70 yards "yet", useually much less.
 

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All loads list in my posting were recorded on a Chrony from my 18.5 inch barrel. The H4895 loads, the Remington factory 200gr loads, and the Buffalobore factory 220gr loads.

35REMINGTON has posted H4895 loads for the Speer 220 which are 2100 to 2200fps depending on your gun/barrel compbination. I still have a couple of boxes of the Buffolbore loads and I would not hesitate to use them on game at or above 300lbs like a big Black Bear or Elk. But if you load your own stuff it seems you can improve on the Buffs load.

This was my first time loading the 35rem and it was a toss up between the 200CLRN (2200fps) and the Speer 180 at about 2330fps. I will probably never shoot past 150 yards and must likely under 75 yards. I have thumbed deer with a 35Whelen and Just wanted to improve on the 35rems factory loads. The Whelen with 200gr factory loads is impressive on deer but more then needed, but still very little damaged meat. I just like 35 cal guns, medium bore, medium velocity.
 

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Tjen

Where do you hunt in MI?

I live in WI but hunt deer in the U.P. between Escanaba and Marquette off M-35. Are you nearby?
 

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I mainly hunt the Lewiston area but that could be 20 miles in any direction. My hunting buddy lives by Gaylord so we are usually hunting somewhere in between. If I have enough vacation I like to spend a few days in the pigeon river area do to the change of seeing some elk. I have wanted to hunt the U.P. just need to get a tent and wood stove for the freezing temperatures. I have camped in northern Ontario in september but deer season in the U.P. is winter camping!
 
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