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Hey folks,
First post, so be gentle.
I recently became the owner of a brand new Remlin 1895GBL (or, 'The Elephant Gun' as it's been lovingly nicknamed) and was looking for some reloading guidance please.
I ran a couple of boxes of Federal 300gn factory loads through it to check everything was as it should be, then started to reload. (I intended to from the outset, and at A$60 a pack here in Oz it makes sense too).

I'm currently loading a 300gn Rem jacketed HP over 55gn ADI AR2207 (which is the Australian manufactured powder rebranded as Hodgdon H4198 in the States), new Starline brass (FLS'd and trimmed) and Federal Match primers giving me an average of 2245fps over 10 shots from the 18.5" Guide Gun.
I'm thinking that's a bit hot and must be right up there in the pressure range according to the manuals, despite it being the starting load in ADI manuals (based on 24" barrel.... what's the current thinking on pressure drop v's barrel length on big bores? For the nominal 50fps per inch drop that puts me right at around the max of 40,000cup, although some suggest 15-25fps is more realistic with the .458 bore).
I've only just got the chrono, specifically for load development for this rifle due to the lack of conventional pressure signs with this cartridge. Before I got the chrono I was just using the starting loads from the manuals and gauging how much of a walloping I was getting from the gun compared to the factory stuff.
It has to be said the reloads had a little more kick but I guess that's understandable if the factory stuff's loaded to be "Trapdoor' safe.
There's no flattening/cratering of primers, brass looks good and no extraction problems. Accuracy's good (despite the almighty wallop it gives you, and using open sights).
The manuals indicate I could go up another 5 grains but I'm thinking of backing it off a bit....... it's not far off being a compressed load at 55g.
(The chrono looks to be spot on for various 223 loads, so I'm ruling out calibration error, although I'll take the 22 and some match ammo next time to double check)

As an aside, I'm quite pleased with the mechanical fit/finish of the gun after all the horror stories out there. The bluing's good, front sight's dead on 12 o'clock (since replaced with Skinners....great), all the screws are in good nick, wood to metal joins are spot on. All this is just as well, as I had to buy the gun sight-unseen, wait nearly 6 month's on a shipment coming to Oz and mine was the 2nd last 1895 available in that shipment. I stripped the gun completely when I received it, cleaned up the action, checked for the crack in the receiver (none - it does have the notch showing the barrel threads though).The only disappointing aspect is the chequering which is flattened in several areas, but I can live with a cosmetic blemish as long as the gun functions well. I also had a look at some of the other Marlins models in the LGS and they all looked to be well finished.

I'd value your opinions on the 300gn loads please (I'd like to stick to 300gn as they're easily available and I figure knocking a 1/2" hole in a pig or goat (nothing larger) at ~2000fps would be all I'd ever need.

Cheers,
SC


ps Thanks to everyone who contributes to this forum, almost everything I know about this iconic cartridge, gun and their quirks I've picked up here.
I've not had the gun for long but I already suspect it'd be the last one I'd part with and I think I made a few converts at the range too..... it's just too much fun not to like.
 

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Somebody more knowledgeable will have to comment. My Lyman 48th doesn't list H4198 but does list IMR4198 which is similar but not exactly the same.

In the Marlin 1895 data Lyman stops way short of 55gr of IMR4198 for a 300gr HP.
 
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Hey SC,

"Go to" load in the 45/70, using a 300 gr H'Day JHP, is 45 gr of H 4198. (H'Day Third Edition Manual).

1800 fps. (Winchester Brass)

Take a look here Basic Manual Download

Rolls venison......like bunny rabbits. (does ruin a bit of meat, if not careful of shot placement)

Later, Mark
 

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The load you are using is for Ruger #1, not for the 1895. Lyman 49th addition lists 36 grains as the starting load and 41 as max load by the way that 55 grains is the max load for the Ruger. The pressure for the load you are shooting is listed at 35200. Your chron is showing very close to what is listed for what you are shooting. I guess it's up to you if you want to continue shooting the load but coming down abit wouldn't hurt anything.
 

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Case: Winchester Twist: 1:20"
Primer: CCI 200, Large Rifle
Barrel Length: 24"
Trim Length: 2.100"
Bullet Weight300 GR. SIE HP Starting Loads Starting Load: Minimum load required. If a starting load is not populated, it often denotes a subsonic load.
Maximum Loads

Manufacturer
Powder
Bullet Diam.
C.O.L. C.O.L.: Cartridge Overall Length


Grs.
Vel. (ft/s) Velocity: The speed of the bullet in flight.

Pressure Pressure: The force exerted by burning powder measured in Copper Units of Pressure (CUP) or Pounds per Square Inch (PSI).


Grs. Grains: If the value is followed by a C, it denotes a compressed load.

Vel. (ft/s) Velocity: The speed of the bullet in flight.

Pressure Pressure: The force exerted by burning powder measured in Copper Units of Pressure (CUP) or Pounds per Square Inch (PSI).


300 GR. SIE HP
Manufacturer Hodgdon
Powder H4198
Bullet Diameter .458"
C.O.L. 2.525"
Starting Load
Grains 55.0
Velocity (ft/s) 2,221
Pressure 27,600 CUP
Maximum Load
Grains 60.0
Velocity (ft/s) 2,424
Pressure 40,000 CUP
 

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This is just a reminder of a constant problem with reloading, namely the differing data out there, especially when it comes to the 45/70........

My copy of Herter's Professional Loading and Reloading Data book (third edition 1966) gives loads ranging from 30-34 grains DuPont 4198 (old name for IMR), my edition of the Lyman 44th shows 36-41 grains ( IMR 4198 ), with a 300 gr "short jacket" bullet, my 4th edition Lyman CBH shows 34 to 38 grains with a 330 gr cast ( again IMR 4198 ), for Trapdoors, 40 to 44 gr for Marlins and Winchesters, and 44-49 grains for Ruger and Mauser actioned rifles. The Hodgdon wesite shows the data I posted earlier for H4198.....also, the pressure listed on the Hodgdon website is only listed as 27,000 and change for that load, which might be a little suspicious as well. All the other loads in the Lyman CBH that feature bullets in this weight range running at the stated velocity are in the high 35,000+ CUP zone. And those are Ruger #1 loads, not Marlin loads. Remember, pressure is lower with cast bullets versus jacketed bullets at the same velocity with other load components being the same.

Having a small amount of experience with loads running in the 40,000 CUP pressure range in my GBL, I would say that your load of 55 grains should be exceeded only with great caution. As Dag points out, this data may be intended for Ruger #1 or Mauser 98 based rifles, which can tolerate far higher pressures than a Marlin. Personally, I would not go any higher and would probably back down a bit.

There are reports on this forum and elsewhere noting problems with stocks on 1895's cracking from the heavy recoil of top end loads. My own stock (laminated) is now a little bit loose, even with the screws good and tight. I may end up restocking the weapon due to this. If it's more power you're after, maybe ditch that puny 300 grain bullet for a 420 grain hardcast and run it out the bore right around 1750 or so fps....you'll have lower pressures and far more penetration and bone crushing ability.

Just my .02, I am somewhat slow on the uptake (dumb) sometimes.....YMMV

P.S.......WELCOME ABOARD M.O.!!
 

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I have also used 55 grains H4198 with a couple of 300 grain bullets, one was the Hornady, one the Speer Unicor.

I also felt like that this was about as hard as I wanted to push my rifle. The Hornady bullet's limit on controlled expansion was exceeded by the velocity generated, and it was rather destructive when used close-in. The Speer behaved quite well at that speed.

Getting the numbers to match up in Quickload indicated that is was in the 38 Kpsi region, and that is about as high a pressure as I like to run. I was running a brand of brass more capacious than Starline, and with that brand, QL says about 40.4 Kpsi in pressure. Slowing it down to 2200 fps even nets pressure more in the 38.4 Kpsi range, and that looks to be 54 grains.

Bear in mind this is data generated with my rifle. But, for MY piece of mind, I'd be inclined to back off to at least 54 grains, or even go down to 2150 fps. Whatever gets whapped with that thing will never know the difference.

Edited to add: I just ran the numbers for 52.5 grains and got 35.5 Kpsi and 2155 fps. Again, this data is with my components in my rifle that I have recorded data on and calibrated the parameters in Quickload with. Yours could be slightly different. And, this is a prediction, though based on empirical data, it's still a prediction.
 

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Charlie,

Welcome aboard!!!!!!!!!!

I am an unapologetic user of cast bullets, specifically those with the large meplats many times Called Wide Flat Nose (WFN) and velocities MUCH lower then what your seeing.

My first cast bullet critter was a deer taken with a 355gr WFN cast at a muzzle velocity of just over 2300fps (I'm shooting a RUGER #1) and tested to over 2500fps.

I never rec'd the consistency or groups I desired with that bullet, and thankfully went looking for what turned out to be a 465gr WFN cast at a velocity of 1650 fps which is AWESOME on deer and elk.

That first cast bullet critter taken with the lighter bullet and higher velocity was OVER KILL TO THE MAX!!!!!!!!!!!!

Never had I expected that kind/size of wound channel from a basically non-expanding cast bullet, and NEVER want to see it again.

Really caught me by surprise!

If High velocity is being used to flatten the trajectory, well then possibly the 45/70 is not a good choice in that respect.

It is a great rifle, very deadly with Looooong penetration with the correct bullet, and it is all of that without using warp speeds.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

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Modern Reloading #2 by Richard Lee lists 300gr Jacketed bullet 49.1gr (2021fps) to 55gr (2245fps) COAL = 2.525


Doc
 

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Welcome from Alaska!!

If your goal is to hunt with the 300 gr hollow points, there's no need to push them fast. It only took one time damaging a LOT of meat in the shoulder of a whitetail before I slowed them down from over 2000 fps to 1600-1700 fps. That speed is about ideal for both adequate expansion and effective penetration.
 

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Yep Bugmasher!!!!!!!!

And even better with a good WFN cast!

CDOC
Agree... I like Beartooth's 525gr Pile Drivers. I push them at 1600 fps. You just don't need anything else for DRTing anything on the planet! :biggrin:
 

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Hey Bugsmasher, what's your load for that one?
RL-7... either 41 or 42 grains. Pushes the 525 grainer at 1567 or 1602 respectively. Good accuracy at 50 yds. And... it doesn't beat your shoulder up too bad either.:biggrin:

BT 525 50yds (Large).JPG
 

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Sierra Charlie,

Sorry... didn't mean to steal your thread.:shot: I'm done.
 

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Hodgdon data was including Winchester brass, which is a good deal larger in volume than the Remington. You are over pressure if you figure this into account. Probably not horrible, but I'd drop it down to 50 and you'll still be putting a whopping on whatever you're shooting. The Sierra also does not generate the pressure that the Hornady does.
 

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I am also shooting the Rem 300 gr hp at 2145 fps ( as its all thats available at present ) with ar2207 and 55gr in the Henry 45-70 18.4". I got the data from ADI's new website.

Modern rifles ( Ruger ) Win case Sierra 300 gr ar2207 start 59.5 Max 63 gr.

Leveraction Win case Sierra 300 gr ar2207 Start 55 gr Max 60 gr

Trapdoor load Win case Sierra 300 gr ar2207 start 45 gr Max 55 gr

This 55 gr load feels ok to me and there is no sign of pressure in my rifle, recoil is subjective but I shoot 9.3x64, 375 H&H and 458 Win Mag which have much more.
 

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