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Discussion Starter #1
I have mostly been using my GG for deer hunting for the past couple of years now. I have shot 8 deer with it from 20 yds to 110 yds. Every one has been a DRT, dropped in its tracks! 2 neck shots (quartering and frontal), 3 chest shots (broadside) and 2 shoulder shots ( broadside), and 1 spine shot (broadside). My load ( except for the first deer - neck shot -Remington 300 gr HP factory load) has been a Hornady 300 gr HP, over 61 grs IMR 4895 Remington brass, CCI LR primer. I don't have a chrony, but the best I can tell from manuals is that this gives 2000 fps +/- a little. I am getting 1 - 1/1/2" groups. ALL shots, including shoulder and spine shots were complete pass through - I have not recovered one of the Hornadys yet. I hunt mostly steep thick cover, and LOVE that this gun/load drops them in their tracks. A 50 - 100 yard dash is not acceptable for me.

I am a believer in shot placement first - power second. I won't be shooting over 125 yards. My experience so far is that the 300 gr Hornady HP is significantly tougher than the Rem 300 gr HP ( this is mostly for examining bullets dug out of my dirt backstop). I definitley like that I am getting complete pass through, and good accuracy. So - whats the problem?

I want to know if anyone has experience with 300 grainers on deer at about 1800fps (thats what the Rem factory load is listed at in a 24" barrel). Does it still drop them like they were pole axed? I think I might shoot a little better with a little bit lighter load, but definitely don't want to sacrifice the results I have been getting.


I appreciate all your experiences ............ Thanks
 

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I am reloading some 300gr. for deer I use hard cast bullets filled with varget 45 grains - that has about 81,602 stopping power!and 1,704 ft.lbs!.I think that enough to kill a white tail.
 

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Well, can't answer your question about 300gr boolits, as I have shot 355gr cast in the 2290 - 2500fps range, and don't plan to go back there.

However a 465gr cast with a wide/flat meplat leaving the muzzle between 1600 - 1700fps is an elk and deer kill'in machine!!!!!!

The lighter bullet didn't shoot nearly as well as the heavier boolit. - Anyone what to buy a LBT 355gr boolit mold?

300 gr bullet must be a real ***** cat to shoot, so maybe you could benifit from a thick/soft recoil pad.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

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You are equating DRT with speed and I'm not convienced that is alway the case. You have many CNS shots in your examples and most any caliber will result in a DRT with a CNS hit. I have watched my daughters drop many whitetails using a 85 grain Nosler Partition bullet from a 6mm TCU. Neck and high shoulder shots, DRT. So to answer your question, yes you can reduce the speed of the 300 grain bullet, aim for the same shots on the deer and expect the same results. I bet you would achieve the same results at 1300 fps. However, I have also seem many deer with their heart blown to jelly run a good ways before dropping. Nothing is an absolute (except in vodka).
 

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The Marlin 45/70 is the ultimate cast bullet gun.Most guns shoot the heavier bullets best.At the velocities attainable in the 45/70 cast will perform as well as jacketed or better.You can buy bullets or cast your own.Just get a size that shoots well and your on your way.
 

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I usually use heavier bullets for deer as I am in grizz bear country. That said last year I used 300gr Remington hp @ 2000fps dropped a mule buck and large black bear, 126 and 30 yards. If not pushed too fast i think they work fine. My load was 57gr H322, Win brass, cci primer and of course a 300gr rem with a roll crimp in the crimp grove.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I have shot LOTS of deer with other rounds - . 12 gauge slug, .308, .243, .50 round ball, etc. I have never seen the consistent performance that this load has given. Knock down DRT, even with lung shots........... that's the point I was making. Yes I am to some degree equating this performance with velocity, but also with a hollow point bullet that retains enough mass to give full penetration. I have shot deer with heavy soft nose and cast at lower velocities without these dramatic and consistant results. So, just looking fort a little input on reducing the velocity a bit. Thanks.
 

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If you are concerned about the 300 grain Remington coming apart just load up some 300 grain Speer hollow points to the same speed. They have a great reputation for reliability and do NOT blow up.

T-o-m
 

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If you are concerned about the 300 grain Remington coming apart just load up some 300 grain Speer hollow points to the same speed. They have a great reputation for reliability and do NOT blow up.

T-o-m
This is good information. Having used the Remington and Hornady bullets also, I found the Speer to have much better integrity. I am firing them at 2200 fps, and the reason for that is to emulate the trajectory of my .30-30.
 

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I have shot the Remington bullet at about 2200 fps.according to the manual.I shot one deer at about 40yds.It put a hole in its ribs the size of my fist going in and no exit.The bullet appeared to disintegrate.I think I would stay with the Hornady bullet.Maybe try a reduced load on some wet newspapers and compare to the load you are using.I wouldn't change too much as it sounds like you have a good thing going.Don't tempt fate.
 

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Dropping the velocity won't reduce the killing effectiveness of the 300gr bullet. It will slightly reduce the initial expansion, but this will increase, not decrease penetration.

The problem with the Remington 300gr H.P. is that they are soft because of the light pressure loads they're intended for. The Hornady is a much tougher bullet.
I think that you may see better accuracy and definitely better economy by reducing the load. I've seen 50.0gr of H322 mentioned (ditto IMR3031) as excellent.

I personnaly use an RCBS mould 300gr FNGC over 30.0gr of #2400 for about 1,650fps from my 1895GG. It hasn't failed to completly penetrate every deer and pig I've shot with it. Recoil is much reduced and is a very pleasant load to shoot. Accuracy is amazing (~2"@100yds). If I fail to hit CNS, the blood trails are double, wide and short.
 

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When you hit 2,000 FPS or more with an expanding bullet, I think you add the additional advantage of greater hydrastatic shock to the equation. Although you are talking only(?) 200 FPS faster than factory 300gr loads, you have also added over 500 FPE to the equation. As you already mentioned, it may not be needed for deer-sized game but the end results are excellent. I think you might just lose that exceptional bang-flop tenendency by going lower on the velocity. I'm with you when it comes to preferring DIT, as it ain't as easy as it used to be draggin'em.
 
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Discussion Starter #13
JTaylor, Goose - thanks, good input. 336ER, I am feeling like you hit the nail on the head. I think that I have hit a real "sweet spot" for the size game ( medium to large whitetails) and the distances ( < 125 yrds) I am shooting. I know that it is pretty easy to get complete penetration with a lot of different 45-70 loads, especially cast. But the dramatic "shock" effect I have been seeing is something I have never seen before, even with 12 gauge slugs which have a bigger frontal area. I was never a real believer in the hydro-static shock school of thought (high velocity/super expansion), but this combo of a big (.45 cal) tough ( getting complete pass through), expanding bullet has been impressive.

Of course you never really feel recoil or hear the blast when you have game in the sights, so I am thinking that I will just shoot a lot of reduced loads through the gun for practice and play ( I am a believer in muscle memory and flinching) and keep this load for harvest time. Will probably play around with powders to "tune" it, but I think I will stay at the 2000 fps range for velocity. The Hornady bullet has been very good for me so far.
 

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I have mostly been using my GG for deer hunting for the past couple of years now. I have shot 8 deer with it from 20 yds to 110 yds. Every one has been a DRT, dropped in its tracks! 2 neck shots (quartering and frontal), 3 chest shots (broadside) and 2 shoulder shots ( broadside), and 1 spine shot (broadside). My load ( except for the first deer - neck shot -Remington 300 gr HP factory load) has been a Hornady 300 gr HP, over 61 grs IMR 4895 Remington brass, CCI LR primer. I don't have a chrony, but the best I can tell from manuals is that this gives 2000 fps +/- a little. I am getting 1 - 1/1/2" groups. ALL shots, including shoulder and spine shots were complete pass through - I have not recovered one of the Hornadys yet. I hunt mostly steep thick cover, and LOVE that this gun/load drops them in their tracks. A 50 - 100 yard dash is not acceptable for me.

I am a believer in shot placement first - power second. I won't be shooting over 125 yards. My experience so far is that the 300 gr Hornady HP is significantly tougher than the Rem 300 gr HP ( this is mostly for examining bullets dug out of my dirt backstop). I definitley like that I am getting complete pass through, and good accuracy. So - whats the problem?

I want to know if anyone has experience with 300 grainers on deer at about 1800fps (thats what the Rem factory load is listed at in a 24" barrel). Does it still drop them like they were pole axed? I think I might shoot a little better with a little bit lighter load, but definitely don't want to sacrifice the results I have been getting.


I appreciate all your experiences ............ Thanks
Hello Buddy,

I don’t know how I passed this thread over, coz I’m on here most days, so sorry for not sticking my 5-eggs in sooner!

I live and shoot in England UK and our deer are small than yours…but may well taste as good!
:eating:
I load my XLR with 300 Grain Hornady HP’s like you, but I seat them in front of 43-Grains of Reloader-7 and I’ve chrono’d em at 1750fps.

I seem to recall that when I was choosing what bullets to use, I read on one of the Hornady pages that their 300-grain HP’s are designed to expand and lower speeds (around 1500fps).

Anyway, that’s my load, it groups very well and like you, I don’t like seeing an animal leg-it once it’s been hit.

I shoot my deer at ranges from 40 – 125 yard and I can honestly say that none of the deer that have been on the receiving end of that load have taken more than two steps!

Regards,

Lee.
 
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Well 3 deer down in the last two seasons with cast boolits - non expanding - and all three DRT.

The two this year at velocities of 1600 - 1700FPS.

Elk down this year, also with a non expanding boolit and again 1600 - 1700FPS, and the "J" bullets being talked about here would simply not have done what the hard cast boolit with the WFN was able to do with integrity/power/energy to spare.

ZERO expansion, and zero need for expansion or higher velocity, simply because of proper boolit design.

If I want expansion, I'll take the .243 or the 300 win mag., use "J" bullets and have lots of it, but with a proper boolit in a 45/70, what's the point????? other then paying lots of money for the bullets.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
 

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I can see where you are getting at. If you could slow the bullet down a little and not get beat up quite so bad. I am kinda trying the same thing. Right now I am running the 300gr Speer, Nosler Ballistic Silvertip and PT at around 2325 in my Guide Rifle. I have a batch of loads using RL7 that I am hoping to back down in the 2100-2200 range. I can't see too much benefit of running them that hard and if I can make it a little easier on the rifle, I am all for it.

If I were trying another load, I would absolutely try out the Nosler 300gr Ballistic Silvertip. It will mushroom wide and should create plenty of shock and wide wound channels. Here are a few pictures from my buddy load out of his XLR. They exit the muzzle around 2450 FPS and we tested them in jugs this Summer at around 15 yards and they were explosive. Well, I think jugs are a little harder than deer are as this bullet went from stem to stern and held up pretty decent. The shot was at around 45-55 yards, so it had slowed just a bit.





 

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Shot a mule deer doe endways at 90 yds w/ 300 gr hp at about 1800 fps. Hit her in the brisket and found the bullet behind the offside hip. That bullet had traveled thru >2ft of deer and still retained 180gr weight. Good enough, I thought. She was DRT.
 
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