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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Took my wet paper testing box out today to ck out two new bullets in my 308 Win. Thought I'd give 200 Speers a try for moose. Hitting the paper at 2368ft/sec the Speer bullet held onto a good chunk of shank and penetrated quite well. Interestingly I reused some paper that I had checked out 170 Hornady FN's in the low 2000ft/sec.

Comparing the wound chanels the 30-30 penetrated about as well though cutting a narrower channel.

However, for sheer penetration the 30-30 is in pretty damn good company as the 308 with 200 grain bullets has a pretty good reputation on Moose up here.
 

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I shot a large doe (170lbs) on New years day with the 30-30 using a 170 gr Rem RN. It was a straight on shot at about 130 yards. It hit he smack dab in the center of the chest, the bullet destroyed the heart and lungs, it exited the chest cavity hitting one of the last ribs and went between the hide and meat and lodged near the rear quarter. What more can a guy ask for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If the 45-70 boys can get data linking the advantages of relatively low velocity to enhanced penetration I would suggest the same link is there for the lowly 30-30.

I have been testing bullets seriously since 1990 and as you slow a bullet down you generally get enhanced penetration. The flip side is that you generally get smaller wound channels as well.

My wifes 30-30 with 170 grain Hornadys would likely out penetrate a 300 Mag with 180 grainers...not bad.
 
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The thing about wound channels/ cavities is that it's better if they are "clean" wound cavities.

A large permanent wound cavity with a lot of damage from temporary cavitation or whatever clots up and doesn't bleed out as well as the same size clean cut permanent wound cavity.

A well-punched hole is a good thing.

Of course it helps if it's in the right place...

:)
 

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Deep penetration with so-called standard cartridges is a subject rarely discussed in the gun magazines. Latest and greatest magnums get all the press.
Yet for over a century, hunters have known their well placed 30-30 bullets would punch right through the vitals.

Sam Fadala authored a book about the Winchester 94 and 30-30. Several chapters are devoted to the 30-30 cartridge with many useful charts of handload data. Sam "pulled" 190 grain bullets from 303 Savage cases and loaded them into 30-30 cases. Results were predictable yet amazing. 190 grain soft tips driven at moderate velocity would out penetrate any factory loaded 30-30 ammo. While I have no direct experiance with these loadings, I trust Sam's data.

If you have the notion, researching old Outdoor Life magazines from the 1920's will reveal what the old timers discovered about penetration. The now forgotten 303 Savage was respected across Canada for its deadly effect on moose, caribou, and grizzlies. Yes, grizzley bears!
Jack
 

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I readthe same book. In it Mr. Fadala mentions that he has recovered few bullets in game fired from the 30-30 including the 150 grain bullets. I have a friend that shoots a 25-06 and he has almost every one he has shot at game, though they are mostly 120 grain corelokts. This also shows the rifle kills well none the less. I am thinking about thinning my gun collection and letting my 308 do all the light work and keep my 45-70 but I must resist because I will end up starting over with another 30-30 and the ones I have are so accurate.
 

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Long-for-caliber, conventional design bullets at moderate velocities give surprising penetration. They fall well below the capabilities some would have us believe that the latest Magnum Blast'n'Boomer possesses.

Our forbearers stacked up big game like so much cord wood for generations with the likes of the 303 Sav., 30 WCF, 30-40 Krag, 7X57 Mauser, etc.

The journalist employed by the current gun press do not write about this. Old news doesn't sell new guns. Their mission is to create "wants" among the consumers where no actual "need" exists. Only information that contributes to this mission gets into print.

We can expect the occasional article that pats the old cartridges on the head like someone patronizing an old war veteran on a park bench. And on the next page they will laud the latest Short Belted Vaporizor Snort'n'Stomper with breathless adoration.

Meanwhile, we know the truth about the old warriors. :wink:
 

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My fine respect for the old 30-30 was elevated quite a bit a few years ago when my main rifle failed to fire with my winter's meat in the sights. I pulled a backup rifle, a 30-30 loaded with 170 Rems and popped the animal, a moose, twice. The second shot completely penetrated and broke the spine. The first shot made 16-18" on penetration in the heavy muscle area of the forward part of the chest cavity/ shoulder area. The distance was around 90 yards, possibly a bit less. I have a recovered 160 grain Failsafe launched by a 7mm-08 from a longer distance which was stopped by the heavy spine of a different animal. There are no flies on the 30-30 in my view.
 
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