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Nigel/others-

From Hodgdon and ADI Powder Equivalents « Daily Bulletin :


AS30N=Clays
AP50N = (No Hodgdon)
AS50N = International
AP70N = Universal
AP100 = (No Hodgdon)
AR2205 = H4227
AR2207 = H4198
AR2219 = H322
Bench Mark1 = (No Hodgdon)
Bench Mark2 = BenchMark AR2206 = (No Hodgdon)
AR2206H = H4895
AR2208 = Varget
AR2209 = H4350
AR2213 = (Discontinued)
AR2213SC = H4831
AR2217 = H1000
AR2225 = Retumbo
AR2218 = H50BMG
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Yep, the Speers were sub-MOA out of both my 30-30s and were right at 2000FPS, whereas the Remingtons grouped almost as good.
Thinking I may have gotten a bad batch of bullets, I called Speer but the guy just laughed when I said I was using them for silhouette. Said these are for fast expansion in thin skinned animals.

-Tim
Tim, do you remember if you were using the Speer 170gr HotCor (2041) or the 170gr DeepCurl (2042) bullets? The performance you got sounds like it was the HotCors. If it wasn't the DeepCurls, I might try a box of those to see how they do on steel.
 

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Tim, do you remember if you were using the Speer 170gr HotCor (2041) or the 170gr DeepCurl (2042) bullets? The performance you got sounds like it was the HotCors. If it wasn't the DeepCurls, I might try a box of those to see how they do on steel.
Sorry for the delay, I had to go pull the box out and look... It was the HotCor #2041s that I used, so perhaps the DeepCurl #2042s might work better.

BTW, the guy that shot behind us on the same bank where we lost so many animals.... He shot a 165gr soft cast gas checked bullet at around 1900FPS and hit 8 rams, pretty much center mass (all shoulder area within about a 3 or 4" vertical span). All fell with no problem.

-Tim
 

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Tim,
If he shot right after you or after someone else that left rams standing, the most likely reason that he had success is that the previous hit moved the rams backward but not far enough to topple. His hits completed the job.

I have gone downrange on numerous occasions to help reset after practice sessions. I have seen rams that were "rung" that had the back foot almost all the way off the stand but still stood. No doubt the next bullet impact would take them off easily.......


w30wcf
 

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Tim,
If he shot right after you or after someone else that left rams standing, the most likely reason that he had success is that the previous hit moved the rams backward but not far enough to topple. His hits completed the job.

I have gone downrange on numerous occasions to help reset after practice sessions. I have seen rams that were "rung" that had the back foot almost all the way off the stand but still stood. No doubt the next bullet impact would take them off easily.......


w30wcf
This issue with the Speer 170s leaving rams was at a local match where the shooters were doing our own target sets and we were all pretty good about setting rams barely forward of tipping point. I trust the person that set them previous to me shooting did so just forward of tipping as that person was my spotter. I personally went downrange after I shot to reset and to check whether the rams had moved or had been set accidently full footed previously.... Most had not budged, were still squared up properly with proper pad overhang, including the one with the horn hit. Only one that moved and had not fallen was one with a hit on the rear leg. It was hanging on the rail by the pad corner.

Regardless, we often practice with the rams set full footed, and I'd lost very few with the Cor-Lok 170s even when they were set full footed.... And those ringers were usually only when the wind was in our face (to the back of the targets, pushing/biasing towards the firing line).

In years past I shot rams with either Winchester SP or Remington Cor-Lok 150gr bullets and had them mostly all fall (they do fall slower, and I have rang more with 150s, but they will usually fall if not perfectly hit center body). This was the 1st time I'd seen 170s ring so many rams.

FWIW, I respect Davis's experiments and the theoretical physics of terminal energy related to mass/velocity. I've even thought of trying something similar. However, based strictly on range results, I'm convinced bullet construction makes a difference. Another reason; Previous to owning a 30-30 I've driven 158gr 357 jacketed pistol bullets to over 2200fps and left almost every ram hit, whereas a couple years of shooting a 2000fps 150g 30-30 rifle bullet on the same targets lost very few (I don't recommend anyone doing it, but I had every ram fall one day using 30-30 125g bullets... The wind was to our back).

Just my .02 (YMMV),

- Tim
 

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Jason, Just saw your post, it's hunting season here in Pa. and I have been preoccupied.
I used a Winchester 94 Lone Star commemorative in 30-30 to win the CLA nationals this year. Loads:
125 Sierra HP 18.0 grs IMR 4759 for C & P
170 Serra FP. 20.0 grs IMR 4759 for T
170 Sierra FP 32.0 grs Varget. for R

Back before they changed the ram setting rule, I used 34.0 grs of R-15 for rams. This load will launch them off the stands, but it also is hard on the shoulder. Not needed any more.

Hope this helps,
Al
 

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30-30 Loads

Jason, I shoot a Marlin 1984CB with a 24" barrel. I've tried several powders and bullets. The best load for my rifle is 25g of 4895 with a 170g Hornady bullet. I don't know the muzzle velocity, but this load will knock down Rams every time unless they are hard set.

This is a fairly mild load so the recoil is very tolerable. But the best part is the accuracy. At 100 yards bench rest with a scope, I have shot a 5/8" group of 5 shots with 3 of those shots being in one ragged hole. Believe it or not! I have the target and if I knew how to post a pix, I'd show it to you. This is phenomenal accuracy from a lever gun.

I have a shooter friend who uses a Winchester Commemorative with a 26" barrel. The above load does not work for him. Go figure.

Jim Luke
 

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Jason, I shoot a Marlin 1984CB with a 24" barrel. I've tried several powders and bullets. The best load for my rifle is 25g of 4895 with a 170g Hornady bullet. ....(snip)
Jim -

I've never tried it, but is that Hodgdon or IMR's 4895? Looks like they're different, at least according to their online load data.

Thanks,

-Tim
 

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I have used 110 gr sierra RN with 26.5 grs of Reloader 7 @2300 fps for the cpt.Any faster and they crater the chickens.I was using IMR 8208 XBR with 150's Sierra in one gun and Hornady's in the other @ 2300 for the rams.Then I rang 2 at the state match year before last.Then I started using LVR and 170 gr Sierras in both guns. they are the cheapest around here.LVR is considerably more accurate then any other powder I've used before,ever,in a 30/30 for full power loads.Two weeks ago I shot up the last of the jacketed loads for the XLR and started using cast bullets.I will be using 22 grs of Reloader 7 and a bullet from a Lee C309 170 F cast from some wheel weights, 95% tin-5% antimony solder,and 7 1/2 magnum shot next week.They are 14.3 BHN when I cast them,as they age they'll get o 15-16 BHN or so.Maybe they are going 1800 fps.I got a old Ideal 311041 mold and will cast some of them tomorrow.I have about 3 matches worth of jacketed for the Cowboy ,after thats gone it'll be cast in that one too.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Sorry for the delay, I had to go pull the box out and look... It was the HotCor #2041s that I used, so perhaps the DeepCurl #2042s might work better.

BTW, the guy that shot behind us on the same bank where we lost so many animals.... He shot a 165gr soft cast gas checked bullet at around 1900FPS and hit 8 rams, pretty much center mass (all shoulder area within about a 3 or 4" vertical span). All fell with no problem.

-Tim
I tried my first match with the Speer 170gr DeepCurl (2042) bullets. Over 34.0gr of CFE223, they hammered the rams! They did it so well that I got a nice little yellow piece of paper with the checkboxes beside "cowboy lever action" and "rams" checked. :biggrin: The marks on the rams varied from the size of a penny to the size of a nickel. None had that telltale big splatter of a bullet that blew apart on impact. I am very impressed with them from what I saw today.

Now only turkeys left to go... :tee:
 

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Jason, Congradulations on the 10 rams. Did you chronograph your load with the CFE 223 powder? If so what was the velocity?

Al
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I haven't run them over a chronograph yet. I didn't even think I was going to get to go to the match due to work, but late in the evening on Friday night I finished dealing with the work issue and decided that I was going to try to shoot the match. I had never shot the load that I used for rams, and had not really tested the pig/turkey load using the 130gr Speers. I honestly didn't expect to do very well, but I broke the seal on that box of 170gr bullets about 11:30pm and loaded them a few thousandths off the lands over 34.0gr of CFE223 (toward the upper end but not max charge). All my sight-in work was done offhand and was rough at best. The format of that match is one 40-shot match in the morning with a lunch break before another 40-shot match in the afternoon. I tweaked sight settings a bit during the first match and probably would have done better than I did in the second had I not turned my elevation adjustment the wrong way on turkeys. I am still getting used to the Marbles sight on this rifle, and have Redfield sights on my other cowboy rifles. Unfortunately, the Marbles adjustments are the opposite direction of my Redfield and Williams sights.

I hope to get time to run both the pig/turkey and ram loads over a chronograph sometime before my next match. There's no match next month and I'll have to miss the June match due to my daughter's 4H position rifle end-of-the-year awards ceremony and picnic. That means I have a good three months to do some load testing/tweaking and, more importantly, do some trigger work on that Marlin 336A. That thing was horrible compared to my other rifles. I'll report in with velocity data when I have it. Just from the Hodgdon load data, I'd guess that I was pushing them around 2200fps out of the 24" barrel of the 336A.
 

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I totally understand all the discussion on this, I am only to A class in rifle cartridge, but nothing is more frustrating than a ram that just stands there after a hit on the heart.

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk
 

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OK... Fiddled with this a while and have worked up a new standard loading for all my animals.
PPU 150s for the first three.
PPU 170s for the Rams.

Thank You Ammoseek. :burnout:
 
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I have good results with the Accurate 31-171D and 26-27.5 grains of either 3031, 4895, 4064, RL15 or Varget. Nearly a full-charge load.

31-171D-D.png Acc31-171DGC-25pt5grs4064at100yds.jpg
 
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