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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all.
I was wondering if any of you clever members out there with access to even cleverer equipment could help me out. I been trying to put together some loads using AR2206H or (H4895 for the Statesiders....) and 165gn RNFP hard cast lead pills without gas checks. I am trying to keep the velocities around 1700/1800fps (which everyone tells me is the sweet-spot for lead pills).

So, I worked up various loads starting at around 19.5gn and moving up in .5 increments of powder to see where the groups are best at 50m. it seems that my rifle likes them at 21gn AR2206h. I dont have a chrony so Im wondering if anyone can procure some velocity figures for me from a new standard 336ss ? They dont have to be spot on as I realise every rifle would return different figure but close would be good. I really want to know so I can figure out if they can be used as hunting loads for my wife .... :p

Many Thanx
Leverlad
 

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Hodgdon lists a 160gr. cast 17.5gns 1351FPS and 21gns 1562 FPS with H4895. In the cowboy action section of the latest manual.
 

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Hey mate,

Straight from ADI's website gives you some data that is close to the info you want:

160gr cast, AR2206H, Starting load 17.5gr = 1351fps; Max load 21gr=1562 (20" Win 94 30-30)

Can't help you out too much more but I can throw in a bit more info that might help.

I've contacted ADI previously about using 180gr cast projectiles and a few powder combinations. One of the loads sent back to me from ADI for AR2206 was the following:

Starting Load: 25gr AR2206, 180gr lead proj; Velocity 1670fps
Max Load: 29gr AR2206, 180gr Lead proj; Velocity 1930fps

I know the 180's are not 165's, nor is 06 equivalent to 06H (but I suspect it is very close) but it might help you estimate a bit better where your loads might be.

*Edit*@rbyham.....Snap!!

FWIW I've been using 165gr Hawksbury Rivers with 10grs of Trail boss for a nice light load for silhouette. Not a hunting load but they shot well, velocity approx 1100fps. Fun loads.
 

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i'd work up enough loads till you find the "sweet spot", cause that's the only way you'll find it. everbody say's everything. but the proof is in the powder!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hornetb said:
Hey mate,

Straight from ADI's website gives you some data that is close to the info you want:

160gr cast, AR2206H, Starting load 17.5gr = 1351fps; Max load 21gr=1562 (20" Win 94 30-30)

Can't help you out too much more but I can throw in a bit more info that might help.

I've contacted ADI previously about using 180gr cast projectiles and a few powder combinations. One of the loads sent back to me from ADI for AR2206 was the following:

Starting Load: 25gr AR2206, 180gr lead proj; Velocity 1670fps
Max Load: 29gr AR2206, 180gr Lead proj; Velocity 1930fps

I know the 180's are not 165's, nor is 06 equivalent to 06H (but I suspect it is very close) but it might help you estimate a bit better where your loads might be.

*Edit*@rbyham.....Snap!!

FWIW I've been using 165gr Hawksbury Rivers with 10grs of Trail boss for a nice light load for silhouette. Not a hunting load but they shot well, velocity approx 1100fps. Fun loads.
Thanx Hornetb.

Thats close enough to guesstimate that they are around the 1500fps mark , which I think should be good enough for small deer and pigs under 50m..... ?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
rbyham said:
Hodgdon lists a 160gr. cast 17.5gns 1351FPS and 21gns 1562 FPS with H4895. In the cowboy action section of the latest manual.
Thanks rbyham.... so you reckon 1550fps using lead 165gn pills is good enough for short distance deer/pig loads ??
 

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Whose bullets are you using ?. Commercial, or your own ?. If commercial, are they gold "Topscores" or blue "Hawkesbury" projectiles ?.

I have some experience with both and AR2206H.

Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #9
mark said:
Whose bullets are you using ?. Commercial, or your own ?. If commercial, are they gold "Topscores" or blue "Hawkesbury" projectiles ?.

I have some experience with both and AR2206H.

Mark
Hi Mark

I am using the Hawkesbury Silverhawkes 165gn RNFP.....
 

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Good evening

The only Hawkesbury bullets I have used in my 336C are the "blue" ones.

The maximum load of AR2206H I can use is 19gns. The estimated velocity is 1400fps, perhaps a little faster. Once we get the chronograph up to the range we'll know for certain. The load gives about one and a half inches groups for five shots at 50yds. They are very pleasant to shoot. 16gns of AR2207 also works well.

You say your rifle is a "new standard 336ss". I don't know if it has microgroove or ballard rifling. Mine has a microgroove barrel and seems to confirm Lyman's advice in their "Cast Bullet Manual" that 1400fps is about maximum velocity.

My hunting load is a 150gn Winchester PP with 31.5gns of AR2206H. Unfortunately, the point of impact doesn't allow them to be interchangeable.

The coating on the "silver" bullets seems to allow you to achieve more speed. I would certainly use them for hunting if range is not a problem. When in doubt I take my 270W.

If you want a lighter load, Trailboss is a good powder in my rifle as is AP-70N.

Cheers Mark
 

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Discussion Starter #11
mark said:
Good evening

The only Hawkesbury bullets I have used in my 336C are the "blue" ones.

The maximum load of AR2206H I can use is 19gns. The estimated velocity is 1400fps, perhaps a little faster. Once we get the chronograph up to the range we'll know for certain. The load gives about one and a half inches groups for five shots at 50yds. They are very pleasant to shoot. 16gns of AR2207 also works well.

You say your rifle is a "new standard 336ss". I don't know if it has microgroove or ballard rifling. Mine has a microgroove barrel and seems to confirm Lyman's advice in their "Cast Bullet Manual" that 1400fps is about maximum velocity.

My hunting load is a 150gn Winchester PP with 31.5gns of AR2206H. Unfortunately, the point of impact doesn't allow them to be interchangeable.

The coating on the "silver" bullets seems to allow you to achieve more speed. I would certainly use them for hunting if range is not a problem. When in doubt I take my 270W.

If you want a lighter load, Trailboss is a good powder in my rifle as is AP-70N.

Cheers Mark
Thanks Mark, Mine is a ballard barrel and the sweet spot seems to be at 21.5gn AR2206H - I just dont really know what the velocity is. I guess I will have to wait till i can find a chrony to check them out - in the mean time they shoot great so i will keep on with them and see what happens when i stumble across mr piggy in the undergrowth .... most of our shots are 50 yards or under .... ???
 

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Guys, Please get a Chronograph if you are reloading. The books are great but you really need to know what is comming out the end of your barrels. Just a little too fast with lead bullets and it starts to lead up. Ane to adjust your load you may need to tweak the powder up or down to get it right. They have come down in price and are now around 100 us for a nice one. Be safe and good luck.
 

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Yeah, I just got a standard model "Chrony" for, as I recall, about eighty-nine bucks and it works slick.

I'm really interested in this discussion as I've been casting and heat treating a bunch of Lyman 311041, 170 grain flat point, gas check pills, and I need to resurrect a cast bullet load for the micro groove Marlins.

I know Lyman says that velocity is the key limit, but Lee says it's pressure and by using slower powder, you can get way higher velocity with minimum leading.

What does the group think?

Thanx
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Bansonyankee said:
Yeah, I just got a standard model "Chrony" for, as I recall, about eighty-nine bucks and it works slick.

I'm really interested in this discussion as I've been casting and heat treating a bunch of Lyman 311041, 170 grain flat point, gas check pills, and I need to resurrect a cast bullet load for the micro groove Marlins.

I know Lyman says that velocity is the key limit, but Lee says it's pressure and by using slower powder, you can get way higher velocity with minimum leading.

What does the group think?

Thanx
It also depends on the type of cast bullets you are using. Hard castbullets can be used at higher velocity than softer lead bullets. Gas checks also up the ante... I dont get any leading and am sticking to around 1700fps with hard casts.... so far they are accurate and all i need is to find out what they are good for other than punching holes in paper and tin cans :)
 

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Reloader 7, 26.0 graines.
Cast bullets from 150 through 190 grains.
Cast soft, sized to .311 or .312, heat treated hard.
Never look back.
 
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