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Only 3 more days till we Ohioans learn if we will be able to use straight walled "pistol cartridge" for white tails. I sure hope it passes, I am really wanting to take my 444P, and give it a whirl on a deer. They vote the 9th, if it passes, I think there is gonna be a major shortage, and result in high dollar rifles. I am ready to join most of the rest of the country and be able to carry a rifle to the woods. I wander why the 450 Marlin isn't listed in the approved cartridges though.
 

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"I wander why the 450 Marlin isn't listed in the approved cartridges though."

45/70 but not 450? That is peculiar.

Thanks for the heads up. It's a good thing for everybody if it passes, but availability might get more thinned out than it already is. Good to know.
 

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"I wander why the 450 Marlin isn't listed in the approved cartridges though."

45/70 but not 450? That is peculiar.

Thanks for the heads up. It's a good thing for everybody if it passes, but availability might get more thinned out than it already is. Good to know.
Because it is a belted case.
 

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Joshua,

I have been to the last two Lima Gun Shows and folks have pretty much bought up all the Ohio deer legal LGs. The only ones still available are priced is if they were made by John Rigby. All the vendors at the gun shows know about the proposed rule change and as usual are willing to take the opportunity to gouge. I didn't look to see if any ammo was available cause I don't buy factory loads.

I think the 450M and some other calibers like the 405 Win didn't make the list because the ODNR just ran with their list of approved pistol cartridges. Because the BFR is chambered in 45-70 & 444M these two made the list. The 50-110 is also on the proposed list, I would like to meet the fellow who is shooting that cartridge in a handgun.

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Lots of guys buying up 444's and 45-70's as well as .44's...but I think most Ohioans will be attracted to the $250 single shots rather than the $600-900 dollar lever guns.
Gun season is only 5 days, and honestly the proposed calibers aren't really significant of an advantage over current equipment to justify spending A LOT of money on 5 days.

Sure lever guns are cool and some may buy just because they WANT one, but most guys have rifled slug guns or inline MZ's that already are effective to 200 yards.

I have a 444ss and a H&R single in 444, but if this goes through I will replace my kids .410 with a .357 single as it will be a LOT better for the kids than that horrible .410:)
 

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Actually the 450 Marlin was omitted because it was belted as stated earlier. This came from a WO I spoke with at a DNR Open House. Originally the proposal was worded "straight wall .357 and larger" but they decided to "specify calibers to prevent twisting the criteria to make wild cats etc like what has happened in Indiana.. with AR platform and other guns based on Hi powered short shouldered cartridges...

Specifying calibers allows them to maintain control over exactly what weapons and cartridges can be used..

Although th 450M isn't any better than 444M and others on the list...the fact it's belted would make it tough to deny the .458 Winchester and others with belts..
 

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driven,

I hope the gun season is still 7 days long, not 5 days long.

Judging from the targets I see at my club just before deer gun season, I don't think there are a lot of slug and inlines that are effective at 200 yards. :flute:

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Bikerbean,
I have been going to all them around for the last 2 months of Saturdays. I did notice a few 444's yesterday at Lima, but as you stated, high dollar. There was a decent '78 444S there, for $595, but it wasn't there my 2nd trip thru. The ammo is pretty scarce, unless you want some $38/box of gummy tip Hornadys, but I have enough brass, and components to keep me deer hunting for the rest of my life. I have a 94AE in .44 mag, and a 444P, but would just like to find a decent deal on a .357 lever, but man they are proud of those!
 

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Joshua,

I saw a Win 94 BB, 375 with the red recoil pad and they were asking $760 plus tax. I can buy one on GB cheaper than that, beside I have to buy a Marlin 375 or they will boot me off this site.:biggrin:

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driven,

I hope the gun season is still 7 days long, not 5 days long.

Judging from the targets I see at my club just before deer gun season, I don't think there are a lot of slug and inlines that are effective at 200 yards. :flute:

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My bust on the 5 day vs 7 day thing..brain fart I guess.
As far as the slug/[email protected] 200...There are plenty of Dedicated Slug Guns that will easily print 3-4" groups at 200..Savage, H & R and Ithaca(even has a 4"@200 guarantee on DS2/3).
Inlines can easily beat that with the right sabot/bullet combo.

Now for the fine print...Obviously there are exceptions to what I'm about to say but..You are correct the average Joe walking around with his 870 or 500 SG(rifled or smooth) and/or guys with $199 MZ's are obviously not getting that level of accuracy. But then again, those people "probably" wouldn't justify spending the money on a PCR any more than they would on a DSG.

But...there ARE many current slug guns/inlines that will literally embarass "most" of the proposed calibers at that distance and equal the remaining "upper end" calibers.

And then there's....smokeless:)
 

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My bust on the 5 day vs 7 day thing..brain fart I guess.
As far as the slug/[email protected] 200...There are plenty of Dedicated Slug Guns that will easily print 3-4" groups at 200..Savage, H & R and Ithaca(even has a 4"@200 guarantee on DS2/3).
Inlines can easily beat that with the right sabot/bullet combo.

Now for the fine print...Obviously there are exceptions to what I'm about to say but..You are correct the average Joe walking around with his 870 or 500 SG(rifled or smooth) and/or guys with $199 MZ's are obviously not getting that level of accuracy. But then again, those people "probably" wouldn't justify spending the money on a PCR any more than they would on a DSG.

But...there ARE many current slug guns/inlines that will literally embarass "most" of the proposed calibers at that distance and equal the remaining "upper end" calibers.

And then there's....smokeless:)
driven,

preaching to the choir, I have (4) 50cal smokeless inlines and (1) 45cal smokeless inline. they all do their part, if I do mine.

I have been working up loads for my 45-70 LG with the same sabot/bullet combo I use in my 45 smokeless. I did have to go with a bit faster powder than I wanted because of the case capacity of the 45-70 brass. I am usually a fairly heavy cast boolit at 279g that will give me plus or minus about 3" to 200 yards. I think if go to a 200 grain jacketed MZ bullet & sabot I can get plus or minus 3 inches to 250 to 275 yards. Fairly flat for a 45-70, but it ain't no 270 Win.

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Obviously I was preaching to the choir:)

FWIW, I think 200-250 is pretty darned good. In my area I can tell you I personally have no need for shots beyond that range.

Wind/drift with these big bullets and slower velocities make anything beyond REALLY challenging for the average shooter EVEN if the gun is capable of better..
 

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Out of the outfit of approx 7 guys I hunt with in Ohio I venture a bet only two or 3 will show up with a rifle. One of those guys has had his 444 for 15 years in the safe. Of those without rifles one will have an inline. Shots are 50 yards or less at deer on the move in most cases and those guys are very practical. If they got slugs left ,they will be using them up. I don't see most stepping up to a $700 lever gun plus a $200-400 scope and 3 boxes of $40 a box rounds. My group loves their encores and they will get a new barrel for those before they go the HR route. But in our woods I think my guys will opt for a firearm that has quick repeating capabilities be it a rifle or shotgun for follow up shots. I has been interesting to see the dynamics caused by this change in only one state on a limited supply. My feeling is we have reached the limits to what they will pay.
 

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Out of the outfit of approx 7 guys I hunt with in Ohio I venture a bet only two or 3 will show up with a rifle. One of those guys has had his 444 for 15 years in the safe. Of those without rifles one will have an inline. Shots are 50 yards or less at deer on the move in most cases and those guys are very practical. If they got slugs left ,they will be using them up. I don't see most stepping up to a $700 lever gun plus a $200-400 scope and 3 boxes of $40 a box rounds. My group loves their encores and they will get a new barrel for those before they go the HR route. But in our woods I think my guys will opt for a firearm that has quick repeating capabilities be it a rifle or shotgun for follow up shots. I has been interesting to see the dynamics caused by this change in only one state on a limited supply. My feeling is we have reached the limits to what they will pay.
I agree with you 100% on your observations/predictions as they reflect the feelings of my hunting "circle" as well.

The only exceptions I expect are those with kids will find a 38/357 single to replace the .410 ASAP...and the guys who already have a Lever gun.
I believe Inlines and Shotgun sales will still hold their demand because they can be used for multiple seasons/game.

The only thing I see really changing a lot is that single shot buyers will be buying more Handi Rifles in PCR(357/44/444/45-70) than Ultra Slug Hunters in 12/20ga. Until someone starts offering Bolt guns in 45-70 or 444, I doubt many of the Savage/Abolt guys are going to cough up their long range rigs for a single or lever gun.
 
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