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Discussion Starter #1
My Dad's standard 45-70 load for years has been a 300 gr jhp over 30 grains of 2400. Never a problem and we have killed a pile of critters. Recently, I have been reading about people having problems with 2400 in the 45-70, as it is fairly low volume in a large case.

Should I take any precautions? I have seen where people put tiolet paper or other fillers in the case. Should I use magnum primers (is that safe)?

I really like this load, but don't want to screw up my rifle or myself.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have never consciously tipped the rifle up before firing and never gave it a thought before reading all the horror stories on the internet. I read the other day about shoving 1/4 sheet of toilet paper into the case on top of the powder.

Is this a standard practice and is it safe? Is it worth doing for peace of mind? Will it start a wildfire?
 

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That is a hotly debated topic. Some folks have done it for years with no problems. I know of at least one fellow that used cream of wheat as a filler and ringed his barrel. That was enough for me. I have killed numerous wild animals with 25gr. of 2400 and a 405gr. lead slug. My son (12yrs old) will probably hunt this year with a Remington 300gr. JHP and a 25gr. load. That is a great load itself, and appropriate for smaller folks just getting started. We don't have problems with accuracy or dependability. I like this load so I can concentrate on the hunt at hand, and not worry about flinching etc. These loads are actually a little hotter than what the black powder loads started out at and kill very well. The rumor is out that Alliant is producing more 45-70 loads involving 2 or 3 other powders they've previously not listed. To my knowledge, the main source of the above powder loads were in Lyman prior to 1997 or so. None were listed in #48 and #49. Lyman 47 was the last. Hope they find out more in the near future. For myself, I've over 7,000 rounds of this load alone and am not scared of it.

I would think the main horror story would be a double charge. I also use Unique at 13 to 16gr. Use Trail boss if you like to the same effect. There are a few other powders perhaps more appropriate for taking up case volume. Accurate 5744 is good as is SR4759.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Sounds good to me. I guess the worst thing that can happen is having to drive a bullet out of the barrel. I am pretty OCD about checking all my cases after charging to make sure I don't have any double/missing charges and use 2 blocks to move them across the bench after charging.

I have heard about ringing a chamber or barrel. What are the mechanics behind that and is it fatal to the rifle?
 

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I also got very good results with 26gr 2400 and a 405 cast out of a 45-70. I settled on one load for a .375 Winchester and the 265 cast, of 22.5gr 2400. I don't use fillers either. I used 5744 starting loads in a 300 RUM for firelapping a Model 700 stainless barrel and 150gr firelap bullets. It is a bulky powder. If you are concerned ( and believe me, being concerned has a bad effect on your mojo when hunting!ha) I think 5744 is your huckleberry.
 

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Caveat, if you use TP in a charge it may leave the bbl burning and start a fire.

That would ruin a day hunting in a hurry.
 

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The mechanics are such that are not fully understood, although it sounds real obvious that there is a severe pressure spike. The barrel is ruined.
 

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Coalsmoke
That 30grs of 2400 is a widely used load published in early Lyman manuals, so I wouldn't lose any sleep at night.

However, if you want to duplicate that pressure and velocity with a full case use 50grs of IMR 3031. This load comes in at 25,000cup or less and gets 1600fps...almost identical to what you are using. This is my whitetail deer load and pretty much shoots one ragged hole at 50yds. YMMV
 

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I shoot the following loads in my 22' M1895 and they are all very accurate;

30 gr. 2400, WW case, WLR,-----300 gr. Rem. HP

25 gr. 2400, WW case, WLR------405 gr. Rem. FP

50 gr. 3031, WW case, WLR------300 gr. Rem. HP
350 gr. Hornady
405 gr. Rem. FP

Ken Waters in his PET LOADS lists the velocity with all three bullets using 3031 as between 1600-1700 fps. I don't recall the vels. of the 2400 loads which are from an older Lyman manuel.

Hip
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for all the replies. I am going to keep on shooting that load and not worry about it.
 

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Man, I need to try some of the 2400 loads with the 300gr BST's. Think they will be just fun for my boy (and me) to shoot. Plus, he can even carry the rifle for a little hunting if he wants to. Scotty
 

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Discussion Starter #13
beretzs said:
Man, I need to try some of the 2400 loads with the 300gr BST's. Think they will be just fun for my boy (and me) to shoot. Plus, he can even carry the rifle for a little hunting if he wants to. Scotty
It's not all that fun. I shot about 15 of them the other day out of my guide gun and it was more than I wanted. I may be a wimp, but they seem pretty stout to me. I assume you're looking for a low recoil load for your son. This may not be it.
 

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CS, thanks for the heads up. I will start at 25gr's and move up from there. I am sure I will find something that is a little more comfortable. He does shoot my 338WM with 250gr PT's okay, so maybe I am overthinking it! Scotty
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Just to be safe, check around before you reduce that load. It may not be safe as it is already a small charge in a large case. My reloading manual doesn't have this load, so I don't know what the minimum charge is.
 

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You guys talking about tp starting fires brought back a memory :)
My grandpa was born in Missouri 1896. He liked to hunt squirrel with a muzzle loader and when he shot he would go stomp out the wad as it would start a fire. On a side note he liked to use a hornet's nest for wadding, He was of the opinion that it helped keep the bore clean as black powder is corrosive :) He died in the early 1970's and I know to few of his stories. He was superstitious and principled , had a short fuse and would give you the shirt off his back.
 

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Great story ME! Scotty
 
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I'm just beginning to experiment with cast loads in the 45/70, but I wanted one I could use to introduce women and smallish kids to the gun with, and settled on ten grains of Unique or 16 grains of 2400 as a starting load with 300 or 405-grain bullets. All four shot with decent-to-good accuracy, and felt like 38's out of an 1894, as regards recoil. With the 405's, it was a bit more pronounced but certainly not irritating, and I've never seen a deer that could stop one with a boiler-room shot. Shooting through the shoulders might be a bit more of a challenge, but there's an awful lot of momentum behind a 405-grain bullet, even at 1000 feet per second.

My next test will be with 12.0 grains of Unique for a bit more thump, but even small kids should be able to shoot that load all day without a problem. If fatigue is a factor, it's from hefting the gun!

Just my personal opinion, but the only time I use a filler is when I'm fire-forming brass with minimal charges of fast powders. I use the flavor of Cream-Of-Wheat that smells good. Bacon is the BEST. But then I have to stop for lunch on the way home, it always makes me hungry.

Lots of things do that. Like getting up. ::)
 
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Thanks for the heads up PapaJohn. I loaded up some reduced loads using H4198 last night from some old data I had. Looking forward to seeing what they do.

I would think a 405 would blow through a deer pretty easily. 45 Colts loaded with the same bullet at that speed is pretty serious medicine. Wouldn't think the 45-70 would be any different. Scotty
 

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The 405 can't be used in a 45 colt, however a 300gr will do just fine. Just a helpful tip so you keep all your fingers. :D

Oh yeah, make sure you are using 452 dia. in your colt and not .458. ;)
 
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