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Discussion Starter #1
Hello fellow gun enthusiasts. I'm a newly registered member of this forum, in hopes I could get a little light shed on a newly acquired gun in my collection. I inherited a 1970 444T from my Grandfather last week, and I've been trying to dig up some information on this gun but I'm failing. Long story short, I have talked with the Remington Service Dept 5 times, and e-mailed the Remington's Historian department with pictures on this oddball of a gun. They can't seem to help me either. Although with each phone call and e-mail, I seem to get a tad more out of them, everything except an answer to my question.

Ok, on to the gun... The gun is a 1970 100th Anniversary Commemorative Edition 444T. But this is where things go haywire. It's a 24" JM Stamped barrel, round bolt - side ejecting 336, T Stocked, rounded aft lever gun. The barrel though is stamped "Mod. 1894 micro groove barrel 44 Rem Mag". But it was purchased and used as a 444 Marlin. It has never shot anything else but the 444 Marlin round. I inherited half a box of shells with the gun and shot 2 out of it today. (I couldn't stand it, had to shoot it) It was purchased new in 1970 by my Grandfather with his son (my father) for a hunting trip in TN. The day the gun was purchased, it hit the woods. Both were to kill deer that day, a good father-son trip and a good break in for the new gun (and shoulder). To my fathers knowledge, it has never seen a gunsmith or any custom workbench. My dad recalls Grandpa removing the bolt once to clean it, then reassembling the gun and never to be stripped down again.

Remington first told me when I called that since it was marked Mod 1894, it had to be an 1894. I argued and said that it had the same design as the 336. I was sure of this because my 30-30 and my 35 Remington sat right next to the new "444". I asked if there was any way the barrel was changed at the factory, and the rep told me there was no way a 1894 barrel could be installed on a 336. I continued to state the gun has a round bolt, unlike the square bolt of the 1894, and it would feed a 444 Marlin with no problems. He stated that since it was a 44 Rem Mag barrel, it could not feed the 444. I then gave the serial number in hopes it would lead somewhere concrete, but he stated all it would tell him was that it was 1970 production.

So I ended the call and researched a bit more on the net, only to find the history of the 444 Marlin development and see various models of the gun. None of which I could find using a "44 Rem Mag" marked barrel. So I called Remington again. This time a lady was able to run the same serial and tell me it was a 1970 336T model gun, but nothing else. I explained my dilemma to her and after several brief holds, she informed me to take pictures and send it to their historian department. Pictures were taken, e-mails were sent. 5 e-mails later they can only tell me that it is a 1970 336T gun, and the barrel has possibly been switched after initial purchase. And that since Remington's buyout of Marlin, they just don't have the detailed records on these sorts of things. I'm beginning to think they do not know.

A barrel switching goes against what the first rep told me on the phone, as the 1894 and 336 cannot switch barrels (not sure if this is correct). And it doesn't explain why a 44 Rem Mag barrel will chamber and shoot a 444 Marlin flawlessly. My dad is 100% sure this gun was never modified or swapped after the new purchase.

I've also read that if you shoot a 44 Rem Mag through a 444 Marlin, bad things are possible.

My question being... What is this gun that I have?? I KNOW it's a 444, because she likes them too much. I have a 44 Mag pistol, and there's no way I'm forcing a 444 Marlin round into the chamber. So how can this be in a rifle? Is it possible of a barrel misprint from the factory? Any way I can check to see if the barrel install isn't factory? I'm hoping someone here can shed some light on this for me, as I have turned almost every stone over looking for an answer. Thanks for reading this long questionnaire... my fingers hurt.
 

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Welcome to the site. I've read of this before, but forgotten the details without researching more, and hopefully someone will be along soon to help with a better memory than me, ha! If I recall correctly though, I think Marlin started to call their new rifle/caliber with some form of "magnum" designation, but soon changed it to 444 mar instead; possibly to avoid confusion etc...? You may have a very early edition of the rifle before that change; but the date mentioned doesn't seem like it would fall into line for that though?
Enjoy...
 
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Discussion Starter #3
I have pictures, but not sure how to post them, or where to go to have them hosted and linked. If they are needed for an answer to this riddle though, I will find a way to post them. I did read that the early beginning of the 444 Marlin round was first headstamped as a 30.06 +P Modified. Then later after R&D, the cartridge was headstamped 44 mag. The following year it was finalized as being stamped "444 Marlin". But never did I read that the round was ever called "44 Rem Mag". I question whether or not the rollmark pertains to the early development of the 444 Marlin cartridge. But if so, the "44 Rem Mag" is wrong. And the Mod. 1894 rollmark baffles me because it's on a 336 Receiver. Looking forward to learning more about this. It has already peaked many conversations and interests throughout my family and friends. Confusing, but an awesome gun to hold and shoot!!!
 

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Welcome to MO from Midcoast Maine! You can upload them using the picture icon (insert image) from your local computer. Be aware that many picture hosting sites will kill any links that you make from this forum to their site.
 

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If I remember correctly, Marlin made some 44 mags on 336 frames before they brought back the 1894. Both the 44 mag and 444 use the same diameter barrel. Obviously yours is chambered for 444 Marlin even though it's marked 44. Could be a factory screw up or someone rechambered it after it left the factory. You may never know, but hope you can figure it out.
 

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My bets are on: It's a 336 with an 1894 barrel that was reamed for .444 Marlin. (NOT done at the factory.)

The simplest explanation is usually the correct one.


Has the ejection port been opened up like a Model 444? Or is it still the .30-30 port?
Have you taken it apart and gotten a look at the magazine tube?
 
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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Ok, I will post some pictures. No, I haven't disassembled the gun, but will if it's what's needed to research this gun further. I haven't looked at the tube, but do know it will hold 4 rounds in it. What about the tube would I be looking at/for? I'm not sure if the ejection port has been opened up or not. I'll get my 30-30 and compare with the calipers. No visible signs of milling on the ejection port though, all still blued and smooth. So you're saying that a 1894 barrel can in fact thread into a 336 receiver? Any signs I could see if the barrel has been reamed? Any tooling marks that would tell on itself? I wish I had another 444 here beside me to compare, but unfortunately I do not. But thanks for the information so far. Already more than Remington could tell me.
 

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I see two simple explanations:
1. As mentioned above: 336 with a reamed 1894 .44 barrel. (Yes, it can be done. bikerbean [member here] has built several.)
2. The barrel was incorrectly stamped by Marlin, and then incorrectly documented as a 336T. (I consider this much less likely, as record keeping was not a slap-dash affair after the '68 GCA.)



It may just be the lighting and dirty bolt, but that ejection port looks to me like it was hand-filed. If so, it was done well.

To me, it really looks like a parts gun. -Something assembled from left over parts, or pieced together, bit by bit, over time.

If you cycle the action just far enough to get the cartridge carrier to the top of its travel, does it look like a solid piece? Or is there an additional sheet metal part on the front, that flips up when the carrier is coming to the top of its travel?
 

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I vote for mistamped by Marlin. 24" is the right length for 1970 444. Has the correct rear stock. The split front barrel band seems correct. If you have a 336 with rear barrel band compare it to the 444 barrel band. The 444 has a heavier contour barrel and a larger rear barrel band.

BB
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Yes, the gun is in need of a major cleaning which will happen this coming weekend. It spent the last 20+ years in my Grandfather's closet. It does have a larger rear barrel band than my 35 rem 336, and a heavy contoured barrel. Thought it was a .410 shotty upon first glance. As for the for the carrier, it's a 2 piece. It isn't a one piece like my 336's.

20180410_203655.jpg
 

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That's definitely a 444 receiver, then.
The "flipper" (cartridge leveler) doesn't work unless the receiver is milled for it.

It may be a mis-stamp and bad record keeping, after all.
 

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I'm guessing a miss-stamp, but the record of that serial belonging to a 336T? I've got a '70 444, and I think it's just stamped 444, don't recall a "T", but that don't mean squat. I forget what I had for lunch by the time I'm ready for supper.

Welcome to MO from Kentucky Jr! Nice rifle! Wait, is it possible Gramps maybe never told Dad he had to replace the barrel, and bought an 1894 barrel and had the chamber reamed? Maybe? We do forget more the older we get......
 

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I have a 44 Sporter made in 1973 but has a square bolt that looks idential to your rifle but the date precludes your rifle from being a sporter. My sporter has a 22 inch heavy barrel that I would bet has a 444 barrel on it .
 

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I just measured the thickness of the barrels, in the muzzle, on my 44Mag and my 444s, the 44Mag thickness is .1235 and the 444s is .1675, that my tell you if the barrel is a 44Mag or a 444.
 
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I just measured the thickness of the barrels, in the muzzle, on my 44Mag and my 444s, the 44Mag thickness is .1235 and the 444s is .1675, that my tell you if the barrel is a 44Mag or a 444.
Unfortunate.
That's not enough meat to thread for a suppressor. :biggrin:
 

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Ok, now we are getting somewhere! Hahaha. I should have come to this place first! Just measured the thickness of the barrel at the muzzle. Although I'm not getting a .1675 reading, it's close at a .1625. So that would clarify that it isn't a 44 rem mag barrel reamed for a 444? If so, it should have the lesser wall thickness of .1235 correct? Yes horseshoe, the 444 barrel length was shortened from 24" to 22" in 1972 I believe. Kranky, I cannot attest whether or not the barrel was ever switched, that's what I'm trying to decipher. My Dad again told me that it has never been modified from the day it was purchased new. He should know, as Dad and Grandpa were inseparable. They lived together, worked together, hunted together, did everything together his whole life. But yes, I do understand that people do sometimes forget. Thanks everyone for helping me out so far!

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