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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,
I just had to post this to vent some steam and hopefully get some advice on how to best proceed, might be a bit lengthy, your patience is appreciated.
First off, I am here in Germany, firearms, and especially parts are not as commonly available as you might be used to if you live in a freer country... So, many years ago I just had to have this .357 1894, got one used, shot a few rounds and put it in the safe. Some months ago my interest was rekindled when I re-discovered my revolver and got again into reloading. I took both firearms to a shooting cinema where you can shoot at game in safari- and other hunting settings.
After a few tubes the litle Marlene jammed. Researched here and could confirme the "Marlin Jam", the rifle had been pretty worn on the carrier when I bought it but I hadnt noticed that at first.
I contacted several gunsmiths, one is specialised in Marlin but is a ways off and he suggested I bring it to a local smith he knew because he was snowed under anyway and shipping would be expensive (due to legalities).
I went to the recommended smith and discussed the topic with him. He had never done any work on a Marlin and openly said so. I said I would send him the docu I had found online and asked him if he could add some metal to the worn part and then bring it back down to spec. He said he could, he would have the surface laser-welded and regrind it. He said it would not be cheap and quoted EUR 160,- give or take (probably give :)). I agreed and left the rifle there, luckily I had taken pictures of the inner parts before.
When I picked up the rifle some 6 weeks later, they said they could not guarantee that it was a permanent fix and "only" charged EUR 60,-
I was a bit surprised about the amount, as with wages here, 60 bucks dont go a long way and I could not have imagined how they could weld it, grind it, take it apart, put it back together, etc. for that amount. But OK, off to the range we go.
First two tubes went fine, but when the buffalo came storming in on me on the silver screen: JAM! I was killed many times that day ;-) Eventually the jam was so bad, I had to pack in after appr. 50 rounds total that day.
I called the gunsmith and he said, he had tried the gun in his shop and it went fine with all the ammo he fed thru it (not firing, though). He agreed to have it back and give it another go.
Meanwhile somebody mentioned Mike the Gun Collins in the UK who makes replacement carriers and this last Monday I just went and ordered one, cost me GBP 120,- plus shipping but arrived already today.
So I reckoned I take the gun apart for comparing measurements. All screws were loose and when I got the carrier out it looked exactly like it had before it had been in the shop, they hadnt even touched it, maybe not even disassembled the rifle (when I brought it there I had only re-assembled it hand-tight as I had expected to take it apart to show the worn parts, but that didnt happen).
Now, having spent that amount of money already, what should I do next: should I take the gun back to the shop and let them have a go with welding? The smith, despite all, seems not to be a bad sort, and he admitted he should go about the proper course with laser-welding and grinding, and that he would consider the 60,- I already paid as downpayment for this job.
But what if they mess up the carrier, or worse, other parts in trying to find a "fix"?
And should I let him have the Mike The Gun part as a guide for dimension? Here is another thing: the angled surface of the new part that
is so worn on the old one, is considerably higher on the old, worn part, so maybe the new part wont work at all. But if I put it in and test-fire it, it wont be unused and maybe not be fit as a template.
I could also just screw it and have a friend weld a saw-blade on the old part, like you guys do it in the States :) But I will be buggered if eventually neither part works.
Testing is another issue: not many ranges let you fire away, especially with PCCs. The above mentioned cinema is a special treat that I cannot afford very often.
Sorry for my rambling and thanks for "listening", I guess I just had to write this down to sort out my emotions and separate them from the facts.
Again, any thoughts from you are greatly appreciated, and maybe somebody has experience with the carrier from Mike and could comment?
Cheers,
Marlene
 

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Since you already have a replacement carrier, go ahead and use that and see how it goes feeding wise. If the replacement works, let the gunsmith you took the rifle to and let him have a bit of your opinion on the work, or lack thereof, and MAYBE use him as a 'smith of last resort in the future. HTH YMMV
 

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You have already got part of the shaft, I would not go back for the rest of it is the way I would look at it. Since you have the replacement carrier replace the worn one with the new one, then if you wish find a good welder to repair the worn part, and grind it back down to factory specs... a machine shop may do this as well... keep it for a backup.
 

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When Jeff Johansen fixed mine he built up the worn carrier and hard chromed it to resist future wear. Feeding smooth as butter now.
 

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The great majority of Marlin jams in .357, .44 Mag. and .45 Colt are caused by reloads of improper overall length, being either shorter than 1.40" (35.6mm) or longer than 1.60" (40.6mm). If you ensure that your reloads are of the same overall cartridge length as factory loads, this is rarely a problem.
 

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I'm no expert, but, does the carrier have to be re case hardened after welding? And do you trust someone who charged you 60 euro to do nothing? Try the new carrier first...
 

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Discussion Starter #8
i am no expert either, but as far as I was told, material applied by laser-welding is extremely hard and difficult to even gring with common tools. There happens to be a shop down the road that is specialised in laser-welding, I might pay them a visit one of these days and have a chat. As to trust, well, no :)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I installed the new carrier today and fed some dummies thru the gun, except for a glitch with the 6th round of the first mag, it went fine. I will see what it does in live-fire in a couple weeks when I will have a chance of going to the range.
Wish me luck :)
and thanks for your input!
 

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First, most of the parts for the whole industry are distributed by Brownell's, who have this huge warehouse in an Iowa corn field. They've now got a UK presence, www.brownells.co.uk. Since you were able to get a part from a UK supplier, I imagine if you need additional ones and Brownell's has them in stock, you should be able to get them shipped. This ITAR treaty thing has really messed up getting the smallest items internationally shipped if they've got anything at all to do with a gun.

Next, you can drop the lever, slip out the bolt and extractor, then put the lever back in. This allows you to see if you're actually letting in two, "Marlin Jam" or have another problem, observe through the bolt slot. Cartridge length plays a part here, there's no real cutoff from the magazine tube except the end of the carrier. Too long or short and you get jams.

Finally, there's a Gunsmithing section on the site here as well as previous posts on the subject of the "Marlin Jam" and various fixes that folks have done to carriers, some quite cheaply accomplished. I'd be very reluctant to do any heating at all on a carrier, if not disassembled, the pin's spring and the pin itself could be damaged. The originals were precision castings, they could get warped by any welding or brazing process.

Stan S.
 

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The carrier you posted a picture of, is that wear from shooting or has someone tried to modify/slick up the action ?

This is just my thoughts on the problem, and most of it comes from reading the hacksaw blade repair. I reckon if I were to try and repair a carrier that was worn bad I would first do as you have, and buy a replacement... then try my hand at repairing the damaged carrier. I would grind out a section the thickness of a high speed steel cut off blade, or use a small piece of blank ground to correct thickness slowly, braze this in place of the damaged area, and finish off matching it up to the factory carrier. I would probably even opt for the HSS with cobalt, this stuff is tough.. but the problem is it wouldn't wear it would wear the conacting parts instead... but you would not ever have to worry about the carrier wearing again. If you take it to a machine shop it may be worth asking this, I think it would be better than a welded up reapir on teh damaged area, and would be a lifetime repair.
 

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I dont think it was my plinking loads, they are within spec and it happened with all sorts of factory loads, too. The carrier is in really bad shape, it is at least part of the problem for sure.
cheers
I've been following this thread and .. I'm with rclint. Is this the carrier before or after the fix? Either way.... honestly it's a bit rough looking.
 

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I've been following this thread and .. I'm with rclint. Is this the carrier before or after the fix? Either way.... honestly it's a bit rough looking.
Looks like a standard cast carrier, they've always had a mottled appearance. There's virtually no bearing surface on them that rubs on the receiver, just the front that rubs on the case bases and the spring-loaded pin that rides the lever and snaps over at the ends of lever travel. So finish, or lack of it really doesn't matter. You couldn't afford a gun with a fully machined and polished carrier, at least the way they would have had to do it back in the day. Carriers used to cost less than $20 for the cast jobbies.

Stan S.
 

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I have had several 94s all 70s or older, never had the jam. Last fall was sighting in a Ruger #3 with some Sierra 300gr bullets and
had 94 with us, along with 240xtp loads for it. My brother unthinking decided to try 300grainers in my 94. Got the jam because of
OAL. Wasn't guns fault.
 

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I had never heard of the "marlin jam" until the internet. I took all of my Marlins apart and saw no evidence of lifter wear. But I did break the sharp edge that is supposed to cause the problem. Whats funny is all the old Marlins from the last century that still operate like new a hundred years later. I suppose I am a little skeptical. But I guess it could happen.
 
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Discussion Starter #17
Thank you all for your input.
Here is my update: Good news first; we had a great day at the range yesterday with no jams or other problems :) We Tried factory loads as well as two differnet handloads without any worries, the replacement carrier performed flawlessly so far.
I had contacted the gunsmith by e-amil and demanded my money be reimbursed, to which they answered that they apologize for the misunderstanding, the fault was with them, and they would offer again to do what we had agreed on in the first place, ie laser-weld the worn surface....
BTW: The picture I posted earlier is indeed the carrier as it was when I bought the gun. I, too, think that someone had at some point meddled with it, but I bought lil Marlene used years ago, I wont question her past :)
I will go with the g-smith's offer despite the frown on some of you guys's faces :) 1. They admitted their mistake and apologized. And I think that they mean it because reimbursing the 60,- would have been the easier way for them, apologizing is way harder than handing back sixty bucks. 2. What would I do with a faulty carrier? This way I will have a spare. 3. Their gun shop is where I buy 80% of my ammo, reloading and ML supplies, and especially for powder and ammo they are virtually my only option, so I have an interest in burying the hatchet with them.
Now the bad news: We have open buck (roe deer) season now and .357 is not legal for them here. ;-)
Never mind; that is what I have my 336 in .30-30 for :)
 

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Glad you got your gun up and running. I thought Roe deer were about the same size as our Texas Whitetails. Not real large with a good buck weighing maybe 150 pounds. And most a lot less. That 357 should be more than enough gun.

Pictures and a story of your hunt would be nice.
 

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Marlene I would use a black sharpie or Prussian blue if your a brave man..... (I'm not) and mark the area on the new carrier where the common notch is cut in it from the marlin jam/wear and see if you have anything going on that's going to damage your new carrier
 
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