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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Thanks Clark (cj57)--hope to have some fun with it.

LF--Thanks---going to clean it up and hopefully get to shoot it this weekend.

Hi Lou--

How Many :questionmark: Two :questionmark:. Looks to be all original--wood serials to gun also--nope, never been sanded down but this thing is absolutely filthy--worst I've ever encountered--crud and grime on top of crud and grime--really nasty--hopefully it will all clean up ok. Have to get the barrel squeaky clean before I slug it. I think if WetDog see's this I'm going to have to say " Hey Fernando--meet Fernandina"---hopefully this ol' gal will clean up ok and be a good shooter.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Let's Play " Looking for Waldo" Kind of--

What do you see in this photo that just doesn't belong there ( click to enlarge if necessary). I like surprises just like anyone else--this had me rolling on the floor, never have I ever seen anything like it before.

Table



The barrel/bore cleaned up really nice-----like a mirror inside--tried to take pics but the lighting is very poor right now. I did get the barrel slugged using a 38-40 180 gr. bullet and it appears as though it may be a shooter after all.

Clamp Auto part Hardware accessory Tool Bicycle part


Internal gun parts and crescent butt pad still show CCH on the protected areas---stock and for-end were on so tight I needed to tap them just to get them started to get them off. The Model 94 38-40 I have has a 26" barrel--this one sports the 24" version---will be interesting to see if there is any appreciable differences between the two.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Thanks Mike---

You nailed it --- I took the mag tube off and out pops the wooden plug. I've seen plenty of plugs for shotguns but never in a rifle before. Should be an easy fix for sure I just need to find a spring for it----so far.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks Mark--

I spend way to much time looking for them---that's how-:biggrin:- sure --- send me a check--I'll fill it out and let you know ( someday) what I found. What's a shopping list ?:ahhhhh:

Thanks Dave--

This is one time I really wish I had an automotive parts cleaner. Got one I could borrow for awhile ? Mag tube was literally stuck to the barrel, needed to take a wooden shim and drive it between the mag tube and barrel to free it---lots a crud. After 5 hours of wiping,cleaning, brushing, picking and oiling it's finally starting to look like something. Surprisingly it appears as though the crud and grime seemed to protect a lot of areas--I've found very little rust anywhere. Hopefully the crud wasn't what was holding this thing together---may not cycle now that it's getting a cleaning. Hopefully I can get it on paper tomorrow if the rains stop.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks Oz--

I'm afraid the fit on the furniture of this gun would fall in the unobtainable spectrum for the impostors posing as Marlin Manufacturers. I wish it wasn't so------but------in 10 years (if they're still around) they may have had enough time to at least get close. The stock and forearm on this were so tight that they would not budge by hand--had to tap them with a mallet to get them started. That's called a honeymoon fit--------------------------------------good and tight.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Well folks we have some good news and some not so good news. Looking at the target you will see the first 5 shots were rather impressive--at least for me. First 3 shots were in the bull--1 just to the right and one about an inch low. That's when the not so good started. The more I shot the more things opened up. I'm shooting Black Hills Factory ammo and I pulled a bullet from 1 round and they are sized at .401----The pic above shows the bullet and it was contacting the rifling when I slugged the barrel. I did notice however that once the bullet engaged the rifling it was very,very easy to push through the rest of the barrel--easier than any other barrel I have slugged.

Temps. here today were in the 60's so it wasn't due to ambient temps. and although the barrel got warm it was by no means hot, I checked it with the back of my hand and it was just warm to touch. I haven't had a chance to check for leading yet but will due that shortly. I'm definitely on the look out for some .403 dia. bullets. If anyone has a source please let me know so I can get some samples headed my way.

The gun cycled perfectly and is very well balanced--it's a keeper once I can get the wrinkles ironed out. Hope it doesn't need to be relined but only time will tell.

Maybe the crud was left in there for a reason, huh ?

Games Design Font Recreation Pattern


Steve--:tee:
 

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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Hi Dave--

Thanks for the ideas.

Actually I did both, I used a bullet pulled from a 38-40 round and a 50 cal. round ball I use in my muzzle loader, soft lead. I did lube both the barrel and the bullet before sizing and came up with the same dia. both times. The slug pictured above is of the bullet I used. I'm hoping by going to the larger dia. I can salvage this before relining or having to go the PSB route. I'll try everything/anything available before relining though.

I don't have anything here in lead that would be 3/4 to 1 inch long though. I guess I could heat up some lead and pour it into a 44 mag case and use that though---sound about right ?

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Dave---

Look at pic above with the bullet in the mic--haven't done groove--probably should though. BRB---- Just checked--the fat part is .401 the skinny part is .395, also, in the pic above of the bullet slug there is right at 1/2" of engagement into the rifling.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
Dave---

Thanks again.

I have the same "donut" you speak of left from the 50 cal. round ball I used. I didn't check the bullet before slugging the barrel, only after. I'm going to pull another bullet from this ammo also and see what it mic's at before slugging. Just checked Brophys Book and bore dia. as new was .395 for the 38-40 so I should be good there. BBS( be back soon--going to pull a round)

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Hi Folsom--

Welcome---glad you're here. You hang around here long enough and you'll be "speakin" the jargon before long too. Everyone here are always more than willing to help. You will also learn the more involved you are here the more expensive it gets---so says my wife anyway.

Hi Mark--

Thanks--part of the fun and learning curve is solving the problems-----buying new is to easy--------- you know. Sending you a PM also.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Again--you are correct. Just pulled another bullet from the ammo I used--measures .401, I used both the mic and the calipers and both are the same. I'll make up a "slug" to slug it with tomorrow when mommas gone and try that. I'm thinking a .403 bullet will be just the ticket, if not that then I'm going to have the muzzle/crown checked to make sure there's nothing going on there.

The main reason I suspect it's just undersized bullets is due to the first few shots I fired were as good as I can ask of it , not till it warmed up did it start slinging lead. Going to check for leading in the am also-------it's kinda fun figurin' this stuff out.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
What you are saying would make sense that it started to lead due to poor bullet fit. Started key-holeing. I think matching bullet to your groove would be a great first step. Your going up in diameter is in the right direction. What diameter are other b38-40 users using in vintage Marlins?
Not sure about others but I have a Marlin '94 w/26" barrel and the same ammo with the .401 bullets did this---remember ?

Factory and hard cast bullets sold by the bullet companies are usually sold as .401's as standard offerings.

Target archery Yellow Shooting sport Recreation Archery


Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
No problem. They are good bullets and I rechecked they are 8-9 Brinell. I think pure lead is 5 so they are soft!
I used these in my 38-40 that measured .409 on the groove.
PSB and IMR-4227 gave me clover leaf groups at 50 yards!
Good to know Lou--Thanks I'll keep that info. handy in case I need to go that route. I'm hoping the .403's will solve the problem though.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
NOT THE NEWS I WAS HOPING FOR :

Text Metal
( click then click again on pic to zoom in)

I took my time this week--cleaned and scrubbed and cleaned and scrubbed the barrel--let it soak over night twice then spent some time with Lead Away patches and I'm confident there is absolutely no leading in this barrel--had a very small trace of blue color once ( copper) and that was it. Barrel, groove and bore look like new, no pitting anywhere that I can see.

Had some .41 mag brass so used it to make my slugs ( a full .410 dia.), they are 1 1/8" long with plenty of surface area--#2 Lyman lead.

Bore was pretty consistent at .395-.396 on all three slugs------groove ran from .4085-.409 on all three.

I guess I shouldn't complain, I've been very fortunate with these older guns but it would seem it's my turn to get burned a little. It's hard for me to believe the dimensions I came up with on this barrel. By looks of the interior of this barrel I almost wonder if someone didn't have it re-bored to accept 41 mag. (.410 dia.). I've tried and tried to take pics of the bore to show you but the camera I have now just can't handle it.

Maybe this is just the result of to many jacketed bullets down this ol' girl.

Lou---

Looks as if I need your guidance and recipe on this one. I wish John ( 30 WCF) would chime in here with his knowledge. Any ideas Folks, short of a reline ?-----
:shot:

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Steve,
Thank you for the pm. That is a nice vintage Marlin you have. :biggrin: I would bet that the barrel is just as it left the factory. Your rifle was made just prior to the advent of smokeless powder / metal patched (jacketed) bulleted ammunition and thus, the barrels produced had wider tolerances .....some of which, like yours were better adapted to the black powder / soft lead bulleted ammunition of the day.

If it were my rifle, I would load up some b.p. ammo with soft lead bullets and give it a try. Based on my experience with my '73 .44 W.C.F. and it's .009" oversized barrel, I would expect the results to be good. If you would like to try some b.p. ammo, let me know and I'll load a dozen or so cartridges and send them to you.

Buffalo Arms offers .38-40 b.p. ammo but I think that the bullets are likely a bit too hard to bump up to totally fill the groove.
Ammunition|Buffalo Arms Company

If your .3095" slugs will fit into a fired case (crimp removed), then you could try bullets of that size (.41 Mag).
If not, what is the approx inside diameter of fired cases?

For smokeless, using PSB may be pretty much your only other option with the possible exception of using Trail Boss with a soft, almost pure lead bullet.
Trail Boss has a pressure spike a bit faster than b.p. although the total push would be less. Might be something to try......

w30wcf
w30wcf---

Thanks John-----I ordered some softer bullets from Desperado bullets based on a recommendation from Leveraddict ( Lou) and they arrived today. New bullets are sized at .403 and are a bhn of 8-9, 20-1 alloy. I'm shooting Black Hills ammo now so we know they won't bump up----they are .401. Inside dia. of case mouth is .4015. I do have Trail Boss here so that is another option also.

I have a couple of ideas I'd like to try before going the PSB route. First is to pull the .401 bullets from The Black Hills ammo and reinsert the new .403 ammo in it's place and try that. I doubt this will get me where I need to be but would like to eliminate all possibilities first. Second thought would be to hollow base the bottom of the .403 bullets and use Trail Boss and see if they would then bump up and seal. What are your thoughts on trying that ?

I do not have PSB here and I'm sure there's non available locally---where do you get yours, from Midway ? Is there a formula or do and don'ts with the PSB ?

Thanks for all the help and info.---it is appreciated.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Steve,

Don't lose heart! I'm sure you can get it to shoot decently as my most recent 1894 adventure with a much newer and poorer condition shows. http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/1894/105759-1894-basket-case.html

I think your bore was just oversize from the factory. I've heard the 38-40 was particularly bad about that, even in pistols. That's probably why the bore was in such good shape. It may not have even been shot very much since accuracy was so iffy with factory ammo it would have been an exercise in frustration. I would suggest a chamber casting and if the chamber will handle it, try a .410 or .411 cast bullet.

Mike Venterino had some interesting articles on various leverguns and gets in to tweaking the ammo for over-sized bores.

Chin up! I'm sure it will shoot eventually!
SC--

Thanks--I won't give up---just a little detour I guess. Great job on your 1894 basket case by the way. Hope fully it will shoot as good as the bore looks once we can figure it all out.

Steve
 
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