Marlin Firearms Forum banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I LOVE shooting this load but WHY does Federal list a 200 yard zero with +3.1" at 100 when reality demonstrates when shot to 2" high at 100 you can expect 12 to 14" low at 200!!!! Mind you this round is tight as hell out of my 336 but i wish they would check their data by ACTUALLY shooting the stuff at the prescribed distances......I'm just gonna zero at 150 and fire off a email or letter to them asking them to explain the discrepency...Even if I had a 24" barrel I can not believe it would make THAT much of a difference(10 inches!).......I gave up on the Accelerators...Way too erratic.....Anybody have had better luck with them......they are OK out to 100 but at 200....you might as well be shooting some T shot...cause thats how my groups looked!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,244 Posts
Not sure about Federal's loads? My personal loads for the .30-30 use a 130 gr Speer fp, at a velocity of 2400 fps. They shoot 6" low at 200, when sighted in at 100, but if zero at 200, they are only 3" high at 100 yds.
Seems really odd that the Federals would be so slow that they would drop 12-14" at 200 yds?
I have gotten into the practice of sighting mine in 3" high at 100 yds, just because it's easier. My old .30-30 has taken a lot of deer between 100 and 200 yds, with the Speer 130's! They're a great round, and extremely accurate!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
131 Posts
Marlinman93,
the biggest difference is in Ballistic coefficent. Your 130 grain Speer cuts through the air better than the 125 grain Sierra. According to an article on levergun.com the Sierra looses 25 feet per second velocity every 15 feet. The Speer on the other hand looses 17 feet per second velocity every 15 feet. The other thing is this, I dont think Federal loads the 125 Sierra anymore since they own Speer now. It seems to me that they have started selling the 130 grain Speer in their lighest 30/30 load.

Any way, this article says that the 130 grain Speer will drop 6 inches at 200 yards with a 100 yard 0 and still has 987lbs of energy. The 125 grain Sierra will drop 8.6 inches at 200 yards with a 100 yard 0 and is down to 665lbs of energy.

Of course that is just paper stuff for what its worth.
PB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Marlinman93

OK maybe it is how I am sighting in.........I used to zero at 200 then check 100 on my other guns so I figured if the target was struck at the prescribed distance ABOVE zero at 100 then it had to be at zero at 200...I was working backwards trying to save time and ammo. So it is safe to assume as you work your way out that as i check my tables if i dial in 3+"hi at 100 that It's not safe to assume a 200 yard zero but I can expect if zeroed out to 200 that at 100yds it would be the charted 3+" hi? I will try to get the cartridge zeroed at 200 and see if the ballistics hold true...I guess it doesn't pay to be fancy...but it will keep me awake at nite trying to figure why the opposite approach shouldn't hold true...it's much easier with a short range cartidge or limited power scopes or iron sights...we 'll see... i head to the range tomorrow
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
For those that care

I finally reached a happy medium with the 125gr HP...had to sight in at 150 yards...gave me 3.5"hi at 100 and about the same low at 200...what a far cry from the reported ballistics...maybe I should call federal and ask them where I can get a 30" barrel for my 336!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,244 Posts
Sounds like you got it licked Churchillman!
thanks for the info pappa bear! Good stuff, and I enjoy the data!
 
G

·
With my M336 30/30 and 125grn bullets, I've found it hard to beat the load using 30.0grns or so of RL-7 for accuracy and velocity. BM

Bill
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Blue Moon

Don't handload as yet......finishing a room in the basement......final sanding today...god I HATE drywall finishing....think my wife knows what I'm up to...All I gotta tell her is all the $$$ I will be saving! Anyways I toke the 336 out again yesterday and I love confounding the fellas at the range with this gun...wanted to see if my zero held with a clean barrel...well it held BEAUTIFULLY...put in sub 2" goups at 200 yards....guys couldn't believe I was hitting that small prairie dog shoot and see........like I said I love my 336 and those 125gr HP's
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
662 Posts
Churchill;

Did you chronograph the load?

My experience is that the Federal load velocities are very optimistic, and are chrono'd from a 24" bbl.

The stated factory ballistics are generated by computer based on Std. temps. and pressures too.

However, your test data w/sight-in sounds about right (3.5" high at 100, zero at 150, ~4" low at 200yds.

The 125gr bullet from my .30/30 (Glenfield 30 w/20"bbl) is straining to break 2,500fps over a max load (for my gun). Load is using IMR3031 and is higher than current listed max for this powder, but was listed max in mid '80's. Actual load I use runs around 2,450fps, however. Certainly effective on the Pig I killed with it last season. Broadside lung shot completely penetrated and pig ran ~50yds and expired trying to get under a rotted stump/log.

The factory ammo I chrono'd back in mid '80's from a 24"bbl 336A didn't break 2,400fps.

This would partially account for the discrepancy you experienced.

The other would possibly be the "assumed" hight of the sights over the bore. .30/30wcf data is usually "CALCULATED" using a 0.75" sight height over bore axis, whereas you may have 1.5" to 2.25" or more if using a scope. Or, it could even be the other way around.......... You may be using Iron sights at ~.75" vs their datum of 1.5".

Either way, there are so many variables that the only CORRECT data for your set-up is what YOU generated!

This past fall, I had a similar situation play out, but was 180deg. out from yours.

A .338/06 load I used on a Colorado elk at 250yds at 7,300ft. elev. and at 48deg.F., (laser range finder and GPS generated data) resulted in a wounded elk.

My load gave 2,840fps at 17', at 660' elev. and 55deg. F., and was sighted in at a "PROJECTED" 250yd sight in under these conditions.

At the Colorado site, my bullet struck approx. 10" higher at the "presumed" zero setting/range. Rechecking the rifles zero after I got back from the trip revealed NO shift in the sight setting (Leupold bases, rings, and Vari-X III 2.5-8x scope). Result was a "HIGH!" lung shot, and lost Elk.

Next time, I'll recheck my "ZERO" after I get to the high country!.

You better latch onto all that Federal 125-HP ammo you can find, as it has been discontinued from production. This is because Speer/Federal are now owned by same company- Hence, "Speer/Federal ain't gonna load no more Sierra bullets in its ammo!!! However, they may still be packaging/shipping old stocks still on hand.

The up side of this situation is that they'll probably substitute the 130gr Speer bullet into future production, which although I much prefer the Sierra bullet (more accurate, better expansion-killing effectiveness;-from personal experience over 20+ yrs.), many prefer the 130grFN because of its superion ballistic coefficient. However at the ranges and conditions I use these loads, the difference is a moot (deer/pigs at ranges under 150yds).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks

for the advice,glad you agree with me on those HP's-deadly accurate and a devastating all-purpose cartridge for the 30-30...guess i'll have to pick up a few more boxes(case?)....Like I said I don't handload as yet and that will change soon enough since my 450.338Win. and 7WSM eat expensive ammo.....i can get ammo at cost(I don't tell the wife this) since the uncle has a arms business......but I can get a full setup on the new Hornady L/L progressive for a song as well as all the accessories...but my NEXT purchase will be a chrony..and a Tikka 243 Whitehunter Deluxe IF I can find one(not made anymore)....but good things come to those that wait...scored a Mossberg SSi one for $165 NIB while searching...couldn't say NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
You're right that those 125's from Federal are good ... been using them for years in several .30-30's. Out of a box of 20 cartridges over a period of about five or six years, in a Savage single shot used by myself and my father-in-law ... 18 one-shot kills (never had any other kind with them), one cartridge lost and one remaining. I keep a box on hand in case of laziness but hand load the 125 Sierras ... last year , one shot, one deer from my 94 Win.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
You're right that those 125's from Federal are good ... been using them for years in several .30-30's. Out of a box of 20 cartridges over a period of about five or six years, in a Savage single shot used by myself and my father-in-law ... 18 one-shot kills (never had any other kind with them), one cartridge lost and one remaining. I keep a box on hand in case of laziness but hand load the 125 Sierras ... last year , one shot, one deer from my 94 Win.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top