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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZsparrow View Post
    Late to the show here, but out of interest, after the first two shots taken are the next fliers generally in the same direction/poi? There are a lot of variables that could be in play here, but a barrel machined in a manner that has an outside diameter not concentric to the center of the bore can show this particular symptom. The same goes for fluted/ribbed barrels if the flutes cut are not concentric and equal in depth to center of the bore. Basically, as metal gets hot it expands, and if more material on one side of the bore than other it takes the path of least resistance so to say and moving the point of impact. I used to manufacture barrels and guns, and have seen it before in testing, first few rounds hit the bulls-eye dead on, then a jump to the right in the pattern or whatever direction it wants to go. It usually takes some heat for this to show its head, and varies by the type of barrel, dimensions involved, firing protocols, etc. Heck, I remember the military mentioning one time that barrels sitting out in the full middle eastern heat/sun of summer in their vehicles, could sometimes have a different point of impact from the earlier bore-sighting/testing procedures they had done when cooler.
    Anyway, if your problem is related to that possible barrel mfg issue, there is no real fix... good luck to you.
    Talk about late to the party but BINGO!

    Drinva, try this to test your rifles barrel seat to the receiver: Fire 5 shots to thoroughly heat your barrel, then shoot a group. If you get tighter groups without the flyer, then what AZ stated is correct! Shoot your warm up shot quick and when shooting your group, try to shoot your shots within 60 seconds or less of each shot.

    I've spoken at length with Adam at RPP regarding this and re-seating the barrel to the receiver is one of the first steps he does to accurize a Marlin. Adam can explain what all he does to make a more perfect barrel to receiver seat. Then what some of the other posts suggest come into play.

    My 2007 308MX is soon heading to Adam for a similar problem. During summer heat, the cold shot prints nearly two inches high, 2nd shot 1 inch high, 3rd and 4th shot gets the barrel hot enough to expand enough for the barrel to receiver seat to stop moving and it's ready to shoot a decent group. At present it's unacceptable.

    Oddly enough, during winter temps, it shoots tighter groups from the 1st shot due to less heat moving the barrel against it's seat. Obviously, less heat equals less barrel movement.

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
    This is one of those things were "all the above" applies. It can be caused by so many things they can't be listed. Having gone nuts over
    the years trying to get uniform grouping out of several rifles sometimes I had to give up. While you can usually solve the problem, it's
    sometimes not economically smart. Other times it's the nature of the model of rifle you are dealing with. Thats why you can have
    identical rifles with different accurracy problems. I remember Remington had a big rejection rate on .17 caliber barrels when they were
    first out. Supposedly these rejects were then bored for a larger caliber. I could never figure how that worked. How can you rebore a
    barrel that had already been drilled off center? I guess it was close enough to fall into their tolerance range.
    I don't know how you would do that really, fix a barrel bore drilled off-center and/or not concentric as it were; at least not economically, and if you could even keep it to spec.? You can certainly hone out a smaller inner diameter to a larger, but the bore has to be right to start with, and still have enough barrel wall thickness for the larger caliber if you know what I mean. We used to have newer guys suggest we make a barrel a larger caliber/different barrel when a gun drill broke, damaging the bore, or bad rifling, etc. But.. the bottom line was it just wasn't economical, at least in our case to do so... special set-ups, tooling, planning, labor, etc., etc. May seem like a waste, but just more cost effective to scrap the barrel and recycle the material...
    Maineiac, drinva, rclint and 1 others like this.
    "Measure twice, cut once"... you can apply that to much in life.

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  3. #23
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    Remington has been using the hammer forge process for a long time...
    Gareth Holland likes this.

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  5. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by rclint View Post
    Remington has been using the hammer forge process for a long time...
    Hammer forcing makes a more concentric barrel because the blank starts shorter and of larger diameter and is extruded out lengthwise as it is squeezed down and everything is cold formed concentric around the mandrel. Interior finish is very much better also. Cleanliness of the steel, proper chemistry and structure with adequate stress relief are all critical, but those using the process all figured out the necessary wrinkles by the mid 1960s and it is very well established manufacturing practice now.
    rclint and drinva like this.
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  7. #26
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    something I never thought about ...can't heat treat a barrel after it's been hammer forged. or it'll then bend.


    Mike 2010 likes this.
    My avatar is in Honor of my Great Grandfather , Corporal J.M. Johnston , who fought for the N.C. Confederate 36th Regiment , Company H , Heavy Artillery & who was captured by the Union at Fort Fisher, NC on Sunday, Jan. 15 1865 at @ 10:00PM.


    In Dixie Land I'll Take My Stand , To Live And Die in Dixie


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