50-70
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18
Like Tree19Likes

Thread: 50-70



  1. #1
    Tinhorn
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Lincoln,Nebraska
    Posts
    84
    Member #
    118938
    Thanked
    269 times

    50-70

    Got a 50-70 ,1866 Allin Trapdoor thus week, still trying to find out about it

  2. #2
    Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Texas born, live in East Central Florida
    Posts
    9,432
    Member #
    20531
    Thanked
    24264 times
    Post pictures if you can. Took me a while with my cyber challenge impairment.

    AC
    Triggerfinger likes this.

  3. #3
    Gun Wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Walker MN
    Posts
    2,875
    Member #
    37112
    Thanked
    5531 times
    The 50-70 was used as a military rifle before the 45-70 which was developed in 1873. Early ones had wraped brass cartridges and were said to stick in the breech. Soldiers had to use a knife to extract them. George A Custer had a special model trapdoor built up in which he claimed he shot an antelope at 600 yards (he kind of walked it in like artillery, not the first shot). During the buffalo days it was called by many the Big 50. Some of the cartridges had a kind of copper covering over the primer.

    The rifle itself was a conversion of the Springfield rifled musket as used during the Civil War. Instead of scrapping them they rebarreled them using the Allin conversion. The rifle started life as a Springfield rifles musket. The Springfield musket was the primary Union firearm. It could have seen action before the conversion. I am not sure when the Cavalry carbines were developed, They called Custer's rifle the Officers model which was cut down form the regular arm. If in good shape with a good bore it can be shot with black powder. Cases may be kind of hard to come by but the cartridge is a good one.

    DEP

  4. Remove Advertisements
    MarlinOwners.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Gun Wizard
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    2,437
    Member #
    52778
    Thanked
    5126 times
    Have some of those Allen conversion cartridges, these are the original early designated 1867 version, rifle not carbine or cadet cartridges. Anyway it was a straight walled drawn copper affair, lead sort of pointed bullet, the base was flat with no obvious indication of where the primer was, thou it was centerfire, the priming arrangement being placed inside the case against the base, held in place by big crimping grooves just up from the base . Later (1882) it moved to outside priming in gov loading. Both 45-70 and 50-70 gov issue, were drawn copper cased up into the 1880s. The wrapped foil case and problems being properly associated with Martini .577/450. The Allen's had extraction issues related to cartridge swelling, especially in a pitted or dirty chamber. The soft cartridge material would adhere into the pits of a corroded chamber or on crud/rust in the chamber, causing the extractor to tear thru the cartridge rim or skip around it, leaving a stuck case. Below the cartridge on the left is a tin washed copper cased gov arsenal 45-70 case from 1885.

    Designated the 50-70-450 from a rifle velocity was about 1.300 fps, in government use from 1867 til 1873 when the 45-70 replaced it.


    20190328_111414.jpg20190328_111402.jpg
    Last edited by graymustang; 03-28-2019 at 03:29 PM.
    Steve_In likes this.
    "Should have put more dirt down, saw it right off." Bear Claw in Jeremiah Johnson



  6. #5
    Marlin Marksman
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    Between No Where and No Place, WA
    Posts
    1,872
    Member #
    48146
    Thanked
    4559 times
    Starline Brass fabricates 50-70 brass. Buffalo Arms stocks the brass and dies, and bullet moulds:

    https://www.marlinowners.com/forum/s...1-50-70-a.html

    https://www.buffaloarms.com/50-70-go...set-lym7660121

    Lyman makes two 50-70 Gov't. bullet moulds and I believe #515141 is their copy of the government bullet:

    https://www.lymanproducts.com/brands...bullet-moulds/

    I shoot a 50-70 Sharps Business Rifle with Black Powder and paper patched bullets. I have heard that some load the 50-70 with smokeless, but have no knowledge on powder utilized, bullet alloy/weight/diameter, etc. As with all original rifles, best better slug the bore to determine its diameter.
    graymustang and mr surveyor like this.
    In real life may you be the bad ass you claim to be on social media....

  7. #6
    Tinhorn
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Location
    Lincoln,Nebraska
    Posts
    84
    Member #
    118938
    Thanked
    269 times
    SLUGGING IS NEXT, Lock plate marked 1864, trapdoor marked 1866. Left side has D22 with 25 lower. left side of barrel has an l. Sights match the Allin conversion, Barrel is bright with sharp rifling, action tight no wiggle at all locks up solid, trigget and sear show bright wear spot, but not very big....I am afraid this is shootable....just what I need, more molds and dies will try to get some pictures, OH, I do need a ramrod...
    JohnD13 and Gareth Holland like this.

  8. #7
    Gun Wizard
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    2,437
    Member #
    52778
    Thanked
    5126 times
    From what I've picked up over the years, there are three basic models of the 50-70, the 1865, 1866 and 1868. This has to do with continued improvements to the Allen system, the last improvement being the one also used in the later 1873 trapdoor. Think this makes your rifle a model of 1866 Springfield.
    Ray Newman likes this.
    "Should have put more dirt down, saw it right off." Bear Claw in Jeremiah Johnson



  9. #8
    Gun Wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Walker MN
    Posts
    2,875
    Member #
    37112
    Thanked
    5531 times
    I should ahve stipulated that they were aconversion from muzzle loader to cartridge. The original Springfields they converted from were 58 cal using the minnie ball. They replaced the whole barrel. My memory was a bit shaky but Grey Mustang had the copper cartridges which came first. They supposedly had a painting of Custer's last stand showing a trooper trying to dig out a cartridge with his knife. Those big hammers were stylish in the early cartridge days. Many liked the looks of the Sharps because of them also.

    The Lyman manuals have smokeless loads for the 50-70.

    DEP
    graymustang likes this.

  10. #9
    Sidewinder
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Location
    NW Ohio
    Posts
    197
    Member #
    60045
    Thanked
    289 times
    I am a big fan of the 50-70. I have converted many H&R 50 cal. Huntsman muzzleloaders to 50-70 and rebarreled a rolling block and a falling block rifle to 50-70.
    Ohio finally allowed strait walled rifle cartridges for deer hunting the past 3 years and I have taken a couple deer with the 50-70.
    Great cartridge !

    Jedman
    graymustang and Steve_In like this.

  11. #10
    Tinhorn
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Puget Sound
    Posts
    40
    Member #
    57718
    Thanked
    101 times
    Here are some Springfields. The bottom two (Trapdoor and a US Navy Rolling Block) are in 50/70. It's a fun round to shoot with black powder loads.
    Springfields 1.JPG
    graymustang and 94win30wcf like this.
    Keep your powder dry,
    Scharfschuetze


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Home | Forum | Active Topics | What's New | Subscribed Threads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. ANZMO reaches 50 members within its first 50 days!
    By wags2477 in forum Australian and New Zealand Marlin Owner's
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 09-21-2012, 01:26 AM
  2. Rebore from 38-56 to 50 alaskan or 50-110
    By doublefan in forum Marlin Collectors
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 02-08-2011, 08:08 PM