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  1. #41
    GFK
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    Quote Originally Posted by davemuzz View Post

    If your advisor puts you in funds that average a 7% or 8% return per year.......who cares what he makes? Unless you know the market like they do reaching 7% annually is a difficult thing to do.
    I can agree. I typically consult Morningstar and look for funds 4 stars and above. As I understand it, paying more than 1% in fees is too much. I typically look for a fee around .5%. I use to shoot for a return of at least 3%. Now, I shoot for at least 6%. As I am getting older, it seems I am becoming less conservative (or I wanted more money to play with).
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  2. #42
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    life insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by davemuzz View Post
    Thoughts on post...since my last post.

    Life Insurance. I always purchased term because I considered life insurance a product to provide for a need at the given time. Circumstances change over a lifetime and what a $50,000 whole life policy would buy in 1980 it won't buy today. Whole life is a decreasing benefit. Life insurance purchased to cover Estate taxes was a way for the wealthy to pay the tax on non-liquid assets without force selling property. Second to die policies were normally used and those were held in an irrevocable trust. Today with the 10-million plus lifetime estate exemption, insurance trust are not really needed except for the uber-wealthy.

    Financial advisors. These guys usually make there money from the mutual funds they steer you to purchase. The more you have in the fund, the more they make so it's to their advantage to put you into funds that are solid and will grow. Fees are fees. What is important is what is your long term rate of return (ROR) on your investments. That's calculated after fees. If your advisor puts you in funds that average a 7% or 8% return per year.......who cares what he makes? Unless you know the market like they do reaching 7% annually is a difficult thing to do.

    Gold: Gold is not a good investment for the future. Check out what the historical ROR on gold was for the last 10, 20, or 25 years. Then you will know.

    FWIW
    Gold has returned 400% since 2000.
    By comparison, the dollar has lost 48.7% in purchasing power due to inflation.
    I’ll take the 448.7% return on my money, thanks all the same.
    Anybody with assets tied to the markets is taking a big risk and will soon find themselves much, much poorer when the dollar tanks and the global markets take a sharp nosedive. Mind those 401K’s!
    From Kitco.com:

    Last edited by jgriffin1988; 08-02-2019 at 07:07 PM.

  3. #43
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    Interesting.
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  5. #44
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    Well, first of all don't confuse percentage increase with rate of return on the investment. (ROR). The value that I got from the internet at January 1, 2000 (which was the lowest point in the year 2000) was $388. The value at December 31, 2018 was $1,346 and right now its $1,552. (If the Change %that the above graph shows was correct....the Jan 1 value would have been $288...but its not) BTW....the last time gold was $1,152 was Nov of 2017....so it DOES MATTER what time period we are looking at!!

    So, the Percentage increase going from $388 to $1,552 is a 400% increase. That's easy.....$388 x 400% = $1,552. But....we are looking at a 19 year period to get to this 400% increase. What we need to understand is what would an annual rate of return (Growth) be if we start out with $388 in order to end up, after 19 years, with $1,552? You can go to any future value calculation and by putting in an up-front amount of $388, calculate the ROR. Go here https://www.calculator.net/future-va...t=0&x=117&y=19 and put the numbers in. BTW...the "Periodic Deposit" number would be zero because we are just calculating the beginning value.

    So, what we end up with is a 19 year average ROR of 7.5%. And we say "SEE....SEE.....I got a good average rate of return......right? Well, since Aug 2011 gold has dropped from a high of $2,064 to it's current value of $1,503......while the market has seen the reverse. https://www.macrotrends.net/1333/his...100-year-chart

    So the 400%, while sounding very exciting......isn't really all it's cracked up to be.

    FWIW
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  6. #45
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    Nice analysis. When I think of investing, I think what could or is in demand. I know that gold is used for making jewelry. At one point, it was used in making items for the conduction of electrons. Due to the cost, I think other metals are being used instead. My point, is there much of a future for gold?
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    I watched a program a few years back on gold. I believe that the majority of the currently mined gold goes to jewelry making, and most of that goes to the country of India. The Indian culture believes that gold is a sign of wealth. And the more gold jewelry that is displayed, the more "wealth" the wearer has.

    Hey....I dunno....I wear zero jewelry. I prefer firearms!!!
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  8. #47
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    life insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by davemuzz View Post
    Well, first of all don't confuse percentage increase with rate of return on the investment. (ROR). The value that I got from the internet at January 1, 2000 (which was the lowest point in the year 2000) was $388. The value at December 31, 2018 was $1,346 and right now its $1,552. (If the Change %that the above graph shows was correct....the Jan 1 value would have been $288...but its not) BTW....the last time gold was $1,152 was Nov of 2017....so it DOES MATTER what time period we are looking at!!

    So, the Percentage increase going from $388 to $1,552 is a 400% increase. That's easy.....$388 x 400% = $1,552. But....we are looking at a 19 year period to get to this 400% increase. What we need to understand is what would an annual rate of return (Growth) be if we start out with $388 in order to end up, after 19 years, with $1,552? You can go to any future value calculation and by putting in an up-front amount of $388, calculate the ROR. Go here https://www.calculator.net/future-va...t=0&x=117&y=19 and put the numbers in. BTW...the "Periodic Deposit" number would be zero because we are just calculating the beginning value.

    So, what we end up with is a 19 year average ROR of 7.5%. And we say "SEE....SEE.....I got a good average rate of return......right? Well, since Aug 2011 gold has dropped from a high of $2,064 to it's current value of $1,503......while the market has seen the reverse. https://www.macrotrends.net/1333/his...100-year-chart

    So the 400%, while sounding very exciting......isn't really all it's cracked up to be.

    FWIW
    You’re overlooking a very important factor: counter-party risk.
    Remember this: if you don’t physically have control of your money, that is, don’t have physical possession of it: if the bank holds your wealth, insurance company holds your policy, markets hold your 401K, government holds your promised retirement income...
    You don’t really own it.
    Physically-held precious metals for the win...5,000 years and counting.
    Anyone want to wager $100 the economy goes into deep recession before the presidential election next year and Donald Trump loses a second term because of it? If I told you we are already technically in a recession now would you still take this bet?

    The best insurance against wealth evaporation is gold and silver, “bar none”.

  9. #48
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    life insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by GFK View Post
    Nice analysis. When I think of investing, I think what could or is in demand. I know that gold is used for making jewelry. At one point, it was used in making items for the conduction of electrons. Due to the cost, I think other metals are being used instead. My point, is there much of a future for gold?
    Russia and China are betting on it.

    A gold-backed currency...
    Why, what a NOVEL idea!

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatsp...gold-reserves/
    Last edited by jgriffin1988; 08-13-2019 at 05:51 PM.

  10. #49
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    I can agree with one point in the videos; that there has to be something in common for trade (dollars, gold silver, etc). For now, it seems the dollar is that common denominator. But, we can not eat gold, silver or dollars. So to me, land may be more advantageous to possess.
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  11. #50
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    I have done with out , invested and saved most of my life I am now investing my money in FUN,TRAVEL,TOYS ,ETC. what else did I save it for ?
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