.45-70 Gov't 300gr JHP Assistance and Advice
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  1. #1
    Tenderfoot
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    .45-70 Gov't 300gr JHP Assistance and Advice

    Any advice, thoughts, ideas, or input is greatly welcomed.

    Background: My go-to hunting load for my .45-70 is the Federal blue box 300gr JHP. I am attempting to hand load a round the duplicates the ballistics for practice, plinking and hunting. I have a Marlin 1895 CBA 18.5" rifle, and I have chronograph that factory load at about 1,750fps out of my rifle.

    I have worked up numerous hand loads in an attempt to duplicate the ballistics of the factory load, but always end up with sporadic numbers (see attached picture). I am using:
    Federal brass, which has been annealed and trimmed to proper length
    Winchester Large Rifle Primers
    Speer 300gr JHP bullets (Item 2482)
    All powder charges are measured by hand on an RCBS balance beam
    Light roll crimp on the rounds, similar to what Federal does on their factory loads.

    All the reloading manuals and other online literature I have read says with those powder charges and seating depths I should be in the neighborhood of 1,750 to 1,800 feet per second.
    I did notice while testing the loads below that I had a moderate (not an alarming amount, but enough to notice) amount of unburnt powder in the barrel and action making me think the loads are not developing proper pressure to make a complete powder burn which is the cause of the low velocities, maybe?

    Any advice, thoughts, ideas, or input is greatly welcomed.
    Should I look into Magnum primers, deeper seating depth, heavier crimp, et cetra?

    Thanks in advance!
    Screen Shot 2020-03-23 at 5.28.06 PM.png

  2. #2
    Gun Wizard
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    I suggest more powder.

    I’m shooting 48.5grs imr4198 with a medium crimp from the Lee FCD. It’s 1985fps from my guide gun, clean burning and accurate. You may not want 1985fps but I’d work towards 48.5-50grs.

    Cant help with RL7. Ive only used it with 350’s and 405’s.

  3. #3
    Deadeye
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    I have used 50 gr of R-7 for years but now see it is 2 gr over the new max.I am lowering to the new max myself I don't need 2100 fps anymore. I would load 46 gr and use the Lee factory crimp die. I load Starline brass and CCI 200 primers and get 1 1/2 inch groups at 100. No deer have complained yet!
    You will find the load and I think the FCD will help.
    Bearcat 74 likes this.

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  5. #4
    Banned
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    50 grs out of a ruger #3-#1 for 1900 fps+ and deadly accurett, for a marlin lever i would lower to 47-48 grs imr 4198
    Attached Images Attached Images

  6. #5
    Certified Gunnut
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    My only experience with 300-grain HP’s are with the Sierra (Starline brass and CCI #200 primers) in my Classic Model 1895. My best groups were with 59 grains of IMR 3031 (51 grains of IMR 4198 were a close second). I didn’t chrony them so don’t know the velocity.

  7. #6
    Tinhorn
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    Dont worry about speed, worry about accuracy. Trust me a deer wont know the difference between 1500 and 1700 fps...

    Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk
    rifrench likes this.

  8. #7
    Distinguished Master
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    Good powders for 45-70 are Rel 7, 4198, 3031, and Varget. Lots of bullets have been sent downrange by those. I haven't noticed unburned powder from any of them.

    Make sure you have a firm crimp, but don't crush the bullet. Powder needs a certain amount of pressure to burn uniformly. On the other hand, magnum primer can sometimes work against you by blowing the bullet out of the case before the powder burns. The primer compound is a lot "faster" than the powder burning.

    Another thought. I had a bunch of bad primers I got with a batch of pre primed brass. About one out of five would blow the bullet out of the case and stick it in the barrel without igniting the powder. The entire powder load was unburned and dumped into the action. What a mess. And I was at the range with a stuck bullet in the barrel. Ended up stacking .223 cases from the muzzle and using those to push out the bullet. The bullet base was blackened, but the none of the powder burned.

    Hate to tell you how many of those I stuck before I decided to disassemble that ammo and toss those primers. I used that same powder with other components and had no trouble at all.

    Who would have thought that a bad primer could go off with enough force to stick a bullet in the barrel and not be hot enough to ignite any powder?
    msharley and Tactical Lever like this.
    NRA Endowment Life Member, SASS, OGCA, NC Watermen United
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  9. #8
    Distinguished Master
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    Oh yes.

    Welcome to MO from SW Ohio.
    NRA Endowment Life Member, SASS, OGCA, NC Watermen United
    “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.” -- George Orwell
    "Corruptissima in republica plurimae leges."--Tacitus
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  10. #9
    Wrangler
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    Welcome to the forum MHP348.

    What raised a red flag for me was that you annealed the brass. The factory cases were not annealed. and annealing can easily be overdone, rendering the cases useless.

    You have made the process of finding a accurate bullet-powder combination more difficult by naming both the bullet and velocity you want.
    Normally we start at the lower end of the loading scale and work our way up to the most accurate load in our rifle, whatever that velocity turns out to be.

    What you will have to do is find a faster powder to give you both: the accuracy and the velocity you want.

    But first you might want to try some cases that haven't been annealed.
    "45-70, a weapon of mass destruction" Jeff Cooper. Semper Fi.

  11. #10
    Marlin Marksman
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    Uniform results with Hornady 300gr HP / IMR4198 start load from my GBL. Starline brass and CCI 200 primers.



    Last edited by slamfire; 03-25-2020 at 11:08 PM.
    msharley likes this.
    amat victoria curam

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