Puzzled By 2400 Load Data
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  1. #1
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    Puzzled By 2400 Load Data

    I've done multiple searches, again, and found information that doesn't quite answer my questions.

    I try to limit my powders to as few as is feasible. So far I use:

    38spl - TrailBoss for my wife's snubnose practice rounds under a 125gr cast RN. I don't reload anything else for this as she carries with Federal personal defense rounds.

    357mag - 2400 under 125gr SJHP for wife's 6.5" Blackhawk. This is her practice and woods hiking round.

    357mag (1894C) - 2400 under 158gr RNFP case and 158gr SJHP. She hunts with Rem 180gr SJHP.

    45LC - (Taurus Gaucho) - TrailBoss under 250gr RNFP, 2400 (15.4gr) under 250gr SJHP Nosler.

    30-30 - IMR3031 for everything.

    45-70 - IMR4198 for everything.

    I have studied my reloading manuals and a lot of posts here and other reloading forums and articles while recovering from New Year's eve. Strangely, 2400 drops off the list of recommended powders only for 45LC and cast rounds. I prefer to use a powder that I already use for the 45LC caliber rather than mixing any more than I already do. The TB is just for lower level cast loads but it is expensive and not as easy to measure as 2400. I would like to cut out TB except for my wife's 38spl snubnose practice rounds and use 2400 in all the pistol calibers.

    Anyone know why I couldn't use 2400 in a suitable amount for 250RNFP lead? The Gaucho loves 15.4gr of 2400 over the SJHP. 5 rounds blows one big hole in the bullseye at 25 yards. The lead rounds don't have to be as hot so I would probably drop down to 13 or 14gr of 2400. I don't use gas checks and don't have a chrony. I don't pursue ballistics king of the hill honors, just an accurate round that doesn't wrench my wrists or shoulders off.

    The off thing is that 2400 is recommended for .44mag, .44spl, .454 casull, 357 mag, etc. for lead and plated but not the 45LC. What gives or is this not a recipe that anyone has published? Realguns uses 2400 over 255gr cast but in the Ruger levels of 20+ grains. Even if my Gaucho would handle it my wrists can't.

    Any recommendations on 2400 for moderate to mid-range loads on 45LC and 250gr lead is appreciated. I don't want to blunder into a reloading no-no by my ignorance of some safety factor.
    Jeff

    "I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me." Willard Duncan Vandiver

    "Don't worry 'bout the mule, just load the wagon." Unknown

  2. #2
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    Re: Puzzled By 2400 Load Data

    Go to---www.alliantpowder.com----there is some data there.

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    Re: Puzzled By 2400 Load Data

    BFP, I don't know if this is coincidence or not, but the load you're using duplicates the one in the most recent ATK/Alliant data exactly...for a 250 grain lead semiwadcutter bullet.

    It's rather mild, and that charge is probably a waste under the Nosler hollowpoint. It's rather doubtful that the velocity it would produce would open up the hollowpoint, at least in anything of flesh and bone.

    You'd probably just be better off sticking to the lead bullet, as it will open just as big a hole, and is a lot cheaper.

    I don't think I'd suggest reducing the charge. It's mild enough as it is, and the charge of 2400 would get dirtier and dirtier as the pressures are lowered.

    Just shoot what you've got.

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    Re: Puzzled By 2400 Load Data

    Thanks Maddog and 35Rem for the help when I should have been able to find it on my own. I was on the Alliant site and thought all of the loads offered were jacketed. I must have read the list too fast. I'll stick with the 15.4 and the 250RNFP I have.

    What about the load for the jacketed? Is the Nosler sporting handgun 250HP really tougher than the Speer Guardian HP? The Alliant site lists only 15.0 of 2400 (826fps vs 972fps with 250LSWC @ 15.4grns) for the Speer GDHP 250 at even lower speed than the LSWC. Is this a softer bullet for single penetration personal defense like the Hornady TAP and Federal rounds? I know the 9mm Federals I use for CCW are designed to stop in the first creature or sheetrock wall it hits. That wouldn't be too good for hunting penetration. I don't actually hunt with the 45LC, just use it if something gets close enough to threaten me or my bird dogs when we are stretching our legs in the woods during the off season.
    Jeff

    "I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me." Willard Duncan Vandiver

    "Don't worry 'bout the mule, just load the wagon." Unknown

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    Re: Puzzled By 2400 Load Data

    BFP, the Nosler is more of a higher velocity hunting bullet and is really better suited for the top end .45 Colt loads.

    I personally wouldn't want to stand in front of a .45 Colt no matter what it was loaded with, and if you're going to push a 250 grain bullet at moderate velocities the LSWC or RNFP should serve you just fine for "social work." If you're expecting expansion from the hollowpoint bullet I'd select another hollowpoint type.

    Generally, a jacketed bullet will get less velocity than a lead bullet of the same weight. More friction.

    Speer, on their site, lists their 250 Gold Dot HP as suitable for personal protection. Handloading issues aside, it would be reasonable to shoot these at 850-900 fps, and you need to determine if the listed Trail Boss loads will actually shoot the bullet this fast. Most are very mild, and intended for lead bullets at ~750 fps or lower speeds, which might not be enough to get the 250 HP Gold Dot to open up either.

    It is possible, given high bullet pull and moderate velocities, that one of the .45 ACP 230 hollowpoints would also work, and a crimp is not strictly necessary if you keep velocities at .45 ACP levels. Case tension and moderate recoil should keep the bullet from moving.

    In these cases another faster burning powder may serve better, as some serious thought about loading data is required. Trailboss doesn't have very many published loads for jacketed bullets, so a lighter .45 ACP 230 grain hollowpoint may be a good selection. You may wish to give that a try, aiming for a velocity of about 850 fps if the ACP hollowpoints are used, as this is their intended working range. Or, make sure the 250 GDHP is moving at least the same velocity should you wish to stick with the heavier bullet.

    If the hollowpoint isn't opening up there's no benefit to choosing it.

    If you're working only in the 800 fps velocity range in the 45 Colt there's better powders for that job than 2400.


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    Re: Puzzled By 2400 Load Data

    I'll add a bit more about Speer Gold Dots. While I prefer the Winchester Silvertip JHPs for my hunting loads, I'm also very fond of the 200gr Gold Dot designed for the 44 Special in my 44-40s, particuarily in my Ruger Vaquero. This is the one that has a hollow point you could almost move into and has performed very well for me in the 44-40 at pistol velocities.
    Marlins in 44-40. Whacking varmits since 1888

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    Re: Puzzled By 2400 Load Data

    Judging from what you're shooting, I'd suggest swapping Unique for 2400, especially in the 45LC. 2400 is on the slower end of the pistol-powder spectrum, and Unique has been a traditional 45LC powder (particularly with cast boolits) for decades. 2400 has its uses, but you're using a lot more powder than you need to, and a lot of it is burning out past the end of the barrel. Were you shooting wrist-wrencher loads, it might be useful, but it doesn't sound like you do much of that. When you're launching 250 grains of lead, magnum velocity is kind of um, unnecessary.

    Come to think of it, you could very feasibly use Unique for the 38, 357, and 45LC. How's that for simplicity?

    Regarding the 44 Gold Dots and Silvertips Willy mentioned, look for a write-up of their perfomance in the Bullet Tests forum in the coming days. I also tested 45ACP loads, if anyone's interested in that horrid, obsolete old warhorse.

    PJ
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    Re: Puzzled By 2400 Load Data

    You guys are making my head spin with good info.

    Papajohn, I see the trend for Unique in these applications but am a little apprehensive of the low powder weights Unique, Bullseye, etc. require. Am I reading old wives' tails when I see references to powder position in the case, etc? I read one googled article by someone who claimed to be knowledgable who talked about tilting the muzzle up before firing when using low volume loads so the powder was closer to the primer. Enlighten me here if you can. I can't remember who made the reference. I doubt it was someone like John Taffin but I read so many reloading website pages 1/1/09 that I am still dizzy.

    I'm not opposed to using 1/3 the powder simply to save money if it is accurate but those weights of 6.0, etc. of a granular/ball powder sounds more difficult than 15 grains of 2400. I'm not the best at using a powder measure reliably at this early stage in my reloading to make it harder with small charges.

    I can't give any bad rap myself to Unique because a lot of people recommend it for this application here and in reloading manuals. I haven't tried any of the small charge powders so maybe I should get a pound and just try it.
    Jeff

    "I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me." Willard Duncan Vandiver

    "Don't worry 'bout the mule, just load the wagon." Unknown

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    Re: Puzzled By 2400 Load Data

    Quote Originally Posted by BFPGW
    I haven't tried any of the small charge powders so maybe I should get a pound and just try it.
    Yes, you should. Unique has been almost universally recommended for the 45LC for about a hundred years, it's about as much of a "standard recipe" as there is. There's something about the combined smell of Unique and cast bullet lube that will transport you back about 130 years with every whiff. It's like magic.

    Unique, and the other Alliant powders with the same geometry are not position-sensitive. If you want the ultimate in consistency you could point the muzzle up before every shot, to position the powder on the flash hole, but I'm pretty skeptical about it making a noticeable difference. Years ago I worked up a warm 357 load with a light cast boolit, and shot them upward, level, and downward to try and see if there was any difference. If there was, I couldn't detect it. I wouldn't worry about it.

    If you're worried about double-charging a case, what is your system for reloading and powder charging? I use a turret press as a single-stage press, it's about as idiot-proof as I can make it, because I know which idiot will be using it. I haven't had a problem with over- or undercharging a case in a dozen years, since I instituted this system.

    PJ
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    Re: Puzzled By 2400 Load Data

    Papajohn,
    OK, OK, I'll try Unique. Don't paint any more pictures, you make me want to go home from work on this sunny day and shoot the 45LC.

    As far as my reloading setup, I use a single stage press (Lee Challenger) with 4-die carbide set. I do the entire batch step by step rather than completing one round completely. I am a religious practitioner of the rule - load powder and look into every case mouth twice before moving to the next step. I come from a long line of anal-retentive, paranoid relatives. I only have the Perfect Powder Measure right now and am wrestling with purchasing a Pro Auto Disk or the RCBS ($$$) measure the guy at Graf's is pushing. The PPM works great with 2400 but I still weigh each charge for every round until I am absolutely sure it and I am consistent. I'd like to have something that can work on the expander die and give reliable results. Powder filling is about half of the time it takes me to reload right now.

    I've noticed your references about being in STL. Maybe some time we can PM and meet up. My wife and I are members of Bench Rest Rifle Club near Wright City.
    Jeff

    "I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me." Willard Duncan Vandiver

    "Don't worry 'bout the mule, just load the wagon." Unknown


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