basic casting question, RD460-360-RF
Results 1 to 8 of 8
Like Tree9Likes
  • 1 Post By bill smith
  • 2 Post By bryan alder
  • 5 Post By Crusty Deary Ol Coot
  • 1 Post By RHOUSER

Thread: basic casting question, RD460-360-RF



  1. #1
    Tenderfoot
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    9
    Member #
    1190
    Thanked
    4 times

    basic casting question, RD460-360-RF

    boy, is this a hard question to get a straight answer to. i hope someone here can help.

    i have a Ranch Dog 350 grain mold for a 45-70. the mold says its cast diameter is 0.460. if this turns out to be 0.003 over my groove diameter, is that too much? am i going to cause leading? i have used straight wheel weights in the past and intend to use them here also. M.V. will be 1500 or less.

    any thoughts you have are very helpful
    moofy07 likes this.

  2. #2
    Certified Gunnut
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Verdigre, NE
    Posts
    5,036
    Member #
    43077
    Thanked
    11085 times
    Have you actually slugged it or not? Besides you can always size down. And 3 thousandths over will be fine but may, may cause leading, but I'd doubt it.

  3. #3
    Certified Gunnut
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Deary, Ideeeeeho
    Posts
    4,426
    Member #
    13409
    Thanked
    6657 times
    Bill,

    To what size are you going to size those cast bullets?

    Then, have you made up a "dummy" round to see if this bullet dia. will chamber in your rifle.

    Now, providing it chambers and extracts without issues, your good to go to begin doing a load work up.

    And of course if it fits without negative issues, if you have leading problems it is likely not from the size, but rather the lube or alloy.

    Hardness --- Well in my 45/70 I use a 465gr Wide Flat Nose cast sizing at .460. This bullet is gas checked and cast of a 50/50 Wheel Weights/lead alloy, the bullets being water quenched as they fall from the hot mold.

    No issues and although I run my sweet spot of about 1750fps, I have tested up into the 1900fps range with NO issues.

    Your expected velocities will be pretty low at 1500fps so again providing the bullets function in and out of your rifle with no problems I can see No leading issues in your future.

    And, glad I went to the heavier bullet, but I first cast - for hunting - an LBT (Lead Bullet Technology) Wide Flat Nose of about 355gr, did the casting from a WW alloy and tested to a tad bit over 2500fps (gas checked). NO problems!!!

    As to leading -------------- There is "leading" where the alloy sticks to the bore and continues to build up with repeated shots. THEN there is what some may call leading which is NOTHING more then light smears of alloy in the bore, many times in the last inch or so before the muzzle.

    Such "smears" do not continue to build up over repeated shots and are quickly removed is so desired. Personally those slight smears don't bother me and are left alone for the most part. Want em out, well it is quick and simple to do.

    Doing your load "work ups" you may find that your rifles "sweet" spot may be higher or lower then that desired 1500fps, but if that Ranch Dog bullet has a big meplat/wide flat nose 1500fps +/- will take about any critter you will ever face.

    The WFN profile is VERY effective on game!

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

  4. Remove Advertisements
    MarlinOwners.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Tenderfoot
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    9
    Member #
    1190
    Thanked
    4 times
    Bryan & Crusty....no, i have not slugged the barrel. i have, however, shot several hundred Leadhead Bullets that measure 0.357 and am very satisfied with the groups i get. i can get a 10 shot, 100 yard group that looks like the top of a beer can. this causes me to think that 0.457 might be the answer to my bore size. however, i bought this Ranch Dog mold several years ago because of something that i read, i think on the Ranch Dog site. for some reason, whatever i read made me believe that 0.460 was the best size for me. over these past years, i have forgotten what it was that i read and i can't find anything on his site and i have no idea how to reach him for comment. i wish i knew how to contact him. anyway.....i read this before i shot the Leadhead Bullets. so...i am turning back to casting for this rifle and i have the Ranch Dog mold. i do not want to size the bullets, if i don't need to so i was wondering what some of you more experienced bullet casters thought about having the bullets 0.003 bigger than what i have been using. i have never used the mold, so i have not made a dummy round. but....if the chamber is within SAAMI specs, then a 0.460 bullet should pose no problem. i just am not sure of the effect of swaging the bullet down by 0.003 to get it into a 0.457 or 0.458 bore. from your responses, i am getting the idea that it probably will not be detrimental.

    i really appreciate your discussions. i have contacted Lee and Lyman asking them what they thought and mostly they seemed afraid to tell me anything definitive. i presume they are afraid of some liability or some such B.S. anyway, i surely do appreciate the help from you guys. thanks again.

  6. #5
    Wrangler
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Ok.
    Posts
    254
    Member #
    3936
    Thanked
    362 times
    The only way to know for sure is shoot a few and see, you'll most likely be fine.
    About the only thing I'd change (maybe) is soften the alloy a little.
    grit yer teeth an pull the trigger

  7. #6
    Certified Gunnut
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Verdigre, NE
    Posts
    5,036
    Member #
    43077
    Thanked
    11085 times
    So really what you are saying is you have no idea what size your barrel or what size your bullets are. Different alloys will come out of any mold at different sizes. The only way to be consistent is to size the bullets and in order to get the correct size is to slug the barrel. Any other comments would be a shot in the dark.

  8. #7
    Certified Gunnut
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Deary, Ideeeeeho
    Posts
    4,426
    Member #
    13409
    Thanked
    6657 times
    Bill,

    You need to get some bullet cast BEFORE you can proceed!

    Then get a bullet sizer and luber!!!!!!!!

    Then keep the bullet as large as will function through your rifle to start with.

    Now, as to being "within" specs -----------------------

    Remember everything we use is manufactured within manufacturing tolerances which in the real world means your rifle might just as easily be a bit tight or a bit loose when compared to the ideal.

    Slugging should tell you just where it falls, but if I was you at this point, I'd cast and check for functioning and SHOOT! providing the rifle/bullet combination passed the function test.

    I know I'll likely take some flack for this, but since your Ranch Dog mold is likely made by lee, and me NOT being a lee lover - I'm VERY selective in my buying of lee products - and having some lee 6 cavity molds that leave tool chatter marks on the cast bullets, I'd make no bets that shooting un-sized bullets will be a good choice. As said, will likely get some flack, but just call em like I see em.

    I have been casting for a bunch of years - started in the late 60s or very early 70s - and have always used a sizer/luber and see nothing attractive about tumble lubing or pan lubing. Why deal with the mess?

    Anyway, at this point your dealing with a lot of un-knowns and it's time to begin to nail down some facts as to fit and function and shooting.

    At this point, there is the high probability of falling into the trap of "over thinking" the subject due to the fact that you have no bench marks to work from. Leading - good possibility that your worry is for nothing, Know that over size - providing the dummy cartridge passes the function test - is much better then under size.

    Over pressures ---------- first the function test then a proper load "work up" starting from "starting" powder charge levels and slowly working up will take care of that possibility.

    REMEMBER, any published - from a reliable source - Trap Door Springfield loads will be safe in your Marlin and will be good starting points for the "work up".

    Time to have some fun here Bill! Don't get trapped by over thinking when some casting and loading will most likely answer most of your questions.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

  9. #8
    Wrangler
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    352
    Member #
    9681
    Thanked
    136 times
    Get a set of RCBS Cowboy dies for the better (bigger) expander. I almost NEVER shoot Jacketed in either of my 45-70's and LOVE these dies. Just makes it easier with "fat" boolits.

    Seat one of your cast boolits and then finish in whatever way is best for you (fcd, no crimp, roll crimp etc). In my Marin Guide Gun, the amount of crimp needed is governed by the load I am using. Confirm it chambers and ejects easily. You could put a little black marker pen on the case neck and see if it is contacting the chamber walls.

    My Marlin will eat .461 boolits all day long. I also have a lee .460 pass through sizer. I never have sized smaller than .460 for my Marlin. INHO the biggest cause of leading and Marlin Microgroove accuracy issues is skinny boolits. (I know that the 1895 is Ballard Cut). The lasercast 405 gr boolits shoot like gangbusters in my GG.

    I have shot hundreds of cast in my GG. I really only shoot jacketed on rare occasions. I do have 500+ Rem 350 HP Jacketed left, but, mainly put them in SABOTS and shoot them in my Muzzle loaders. The Cast in 45-70 are that good.

    I own all 3 of Michaels 45-70 molds. The data for the ranchdog molds is still available on the internet at Ranch Dog Outdoors .

    I also have own a brass NOE 45-70 mold for a very nice 186 gr collar button boolit .

    Have fun with your 45-70. I run mine at velocities from 750 fps to the Mid 1500's with no problems. The guide gun accuracy will surprise you.

    hope the helps. v/r rch
    Last edited by RHOUSER; 12-04-2017 at 09:47 AM.
    rob42049 likes this.


Home | Forum | Active Topics | What's New | Subscribed Threads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. Lead for casting question.
    By Lunarphase in forum Boolit Casting
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 01-28-2012, 12:55 PM
  2. Basic cleaning question
    By 1surfer in forum General Gun Related Off Topic Stuff
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-30-2011, 04:48 PM
  3. Casting Question
    By bigdogpete in forum The 45/70 Govt.
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 09-12-2011, 09:44 PM
  4. 1895CB casting question
    By Cowboy gun in forum The 45/70 Govt.
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 04-27-2011, 11:48 PM
  5. Basic cleaning question
    By ike in forum Rimfires
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 04-24-2011, 05:14 PM