.303 British ammo in Afghanistan - Page 3
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Thread: .303 British ammo in Afghanistan



  1. #21
    Gun Wizard
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    Quote Originally Posted by gew98 View Post
    The brits did not adopt the MkVII ball over the Mk VI ball for anything else other than higher velocity , which resulted in flatter trajectory and hence more penetration. They emulated the spritzer point the germans adopted as the S patronen but wanted a slightly heavier bullet than the german S bullet. The longer Mk VII bullet also allowed for more secure seating in the case.... it's pretty darn hard to knock a loaded military 303 round into the case. The whole fiber or aluminum tip filler created as a way to increase wounding is bunk. In those days the ability to insure uniform seating of the pressed in lead core to 100% fill without bullet deformation and or undue wear of dies made the tip filler a good medium to prevent this. From fairly early on the germans went to steel jacket plated bullets after the adoption of the S patronen. The brits never did in the two world wars. Copper based alloys like cupronickel were their choice for ease of manufacture. When you read into the great war in depth the much higher velocities of the typical rifles of that era wounded more greiviously than any war before due mostly to velocity. The S patronen 154 grain bullet often turned turtle in flesh creating horrific wounds. As well as it's typical loading of the day it often exceeded 2800fps . Most pointed military ball of the day with as then universally high velocities generated more horrific wounds than seen in previous wars.
    Virtually all wartime ammunition of all countries produced in such huge quantities by a myriad of suppliers suffered , hardly a brit problem alone . US made 30 cal ball of the great war era was abysmal. A lot of the US made and supplied 303 ammo then was junk as well.
    Like I said it was an article written by a 303 historian. As to its accuracy I don't know. Most stories of bullets that start key holing in targets are questionable as the lack of stability that causes that would show up down range somewhere. The German discovery of the advantages of lighter bullets at higher velocity changed things dramatically. WE dropped the 30-40 Krag also.

    DEP
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  2. #22
    Deadeye
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    Took some soldiers out to shot these old rifles today. SMLE (Enfield 1914), P14* (Remington 1917) and No.4 MkI* (Longbranch 1944).
    IMG_7185_jpg-908697.JPG
    Out of 12 rounds, 6 had sterile head stamps other 6 had this pattern around it.
    IMG_7187_unknown__303_headstamp_jpg-908696.JPG
    Out of those 6, 3 were misfires and struck 2 more times for no ignition. Pulled the bullets and powder was the old stick cordite.
    IMG_7186_cordite_powder_jpg-908698.JPG



    CD
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    Iraq 91,03,04,05,06,08,09, 15 & 16'
    Afganistan 09,10,11,14,17,18',19' & 20'
    TEAM 1894 ~ Member#53 TEAM 60 ~ Member#521

  3. #23
    Deadeye
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    Burning a strand of that old Cordite powder.



    CD
    Last edited by Combat Diver; 07-15-2019 at 01:43 PM.
    rob42049 and Gareth Holland like this.
    De Oppresso Liber

    Iraq 91,03,04,05,06,08,09, 15 & 16'
    Afganistan 09,10,11,14,17,18',19' & 20'
    TEAM 1894 ~ Member#53 TEAM 60 ~ Member#521

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  5. #24
    Deadeye
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    Very interesting history lesson in these older cartridges.
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  6. #25
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    A few years ago I bought several thousand rounds of Govt 30/40 Krag. It was Frankfort Arsenal 1905 manufacture. It was in cloth rip open bandoleers marked 1905. Ammo looked factory new. Judging from condition of bandoleers it must have been stored in a decent place. Ammo had originated from DCM after WW2. The cartridges had degraded from inside. You could put thumb pressure on bullet and case neck would snap off. Powder was a greasy wad in bottom of case. I have seen this in older commercial ammo of the period too. The only thing I could figure is that primer compound had a chemical reaction with the powder under certain conditions that caused condensate inside the case.
    Never trust a man who rents pigs : Gus, Lonesome Dove

  7. #26
    Deadeye
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    Acquired another No. 1 Mk III* today, 1945 GRI.
    SMLE d8740f422-fb2e-4656-864c-878ab5867005.JPG


    CD
    De Oppresso Liber

    Iraq 91,03,04,05,06,08,09, 15 & 16'
    Afganistan 09,10,11,14,17,18',19' & 20'
    TEAM 1894 ~ Member#53 TEAM 60 ~ Member#521

  8. #27
    Sidewinder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
    A few years ago I bought several thousand rounds of Govt 30/40 Krag. It was Frankfort Arsenal 1905 manufacture. It was in cloth rip open bandoleers marked 1905. Ammo looked factory new. Judging from condition of bandoleers it must have been stored in a decent place. Ammo had originated from DCM after WW2. The cartridges had degraded from inside. You could put thumb pressure on bullet and case neck would snap off. Powder was a greasy wad in bottom of case. I have seen this in older commercial ammo of the period too. The only thing I could figure is that primer compound had a chemical reaction with the powder under certain conditions that caused condensate inside the case.
    his is near dead nutz what 99.9% of WW1 era US made cal 30 ball suffers from. If not obvious split necks it's almost always an IMR type powder charge that degraded quickly with nasty gooey results. I'm fairly sure it has little to do with the primer in any way as such rounds I did break down the primers never had the goo or deterioration in them. It was strictly a breakdown of the badly produced propellant coupled with no lacquer sealant and badly if never annealed brass .


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