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  1. #31
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    I still have the 4 page set of records that Bill Brophy sent me in the late 1970's, and I've found no reason to believe his factory records are wrong. It shows the same 1,201 39C built in 1969.
    I haven't seen a lot of things, but I don't automatically say they don't exist just because I haven't seen them. That's a good way to get into trouble, and I've made that mistake before.
    Last edited by marlinman93; 10-28-2019 at 12:22 PM.
    turbobug and bandit1250 like this.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by marlinman93 View Post
    I've found no reason to not believe his factory records are wrong.
    My interpretation of this is that you are saying the records Brophy had were wrong.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waffletop View Post
    My interpretation of this is that you are saying the records Brophy had were wrong.
    Sorry, my mistake. I edited it to correct my error. I have no reason to doubt the record sheets Bill sent me back then. I may not have owned or seen a lot of things,but sometimes you need to trust in the evidence you have. I too have found errors in Bill's fine book, and when it first came out he and I discussed some errors that made it to print. We never had any error discussions related to the data sheets he sent to me for the 39A production. There is one hand written correction Bill wrote on page 4 of the data sheets. It reads, "1953 Only the Mountie had a 24" barrel" and another note in pen at the bottom stating "4x=with scope" to explain the "4x" after some model numbers.
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  5. #34
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    So it looks like the list Bill sent you matches the list Bandit has and does say that the 69 carbine exists.
    Now all we need is for someone to produce a specimen.
    Does Brophy list the carbine being made in his book?

  6. #35
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    I've gotta keep better notes: I've seen images of that list before, but can't remember where and can't find it, nor can I remember the source ... Bandit, Marlinman... or Schtoolee maybe?

    Brophy's book has only the '63-'67 numbers for the Carbine. It wouldn't surprise me to see one with a '69 serial number, nor would it surprise me to learn they were '67 serials sold in '69... I only know I don't have one to show you.

  7. #36
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    A '68 39C would be the impossible one to find since the factory dropped the 39C after 1967. But my guess is that the demand told them to run the 39C again, or they located leftover barrels, and ran the 1969 run again to use them up. Marlin often did things like this when parts were discovered in the factory. It's one of the reasons we can never say NEVER when talking about what Marlin did.
    Back when Marlin moved the factory it was 1969 as you might recall. So it's no surprise they found more carbine barrels! At the time Bill said he found old Ballard barrels brand new in the factory, and gave them away to friends and people he knew that would appreciate them. They also found huge numbers of late 1800's and early 1900's Marlin parts for the 1893, 1894, 1891 and 1892 Marlin repeaters. All those were loaded into barrels and sold for scrap metal prices to Numrich Gun Parts.
    So I would think the timing of the move, and discovery of a bunch of carbine barrels wouldn't be out of the question at all. And it seems they used them all up in 1969 because my records from Bill don't show anymore after 1969. I don't think this is an error in Bill's book as much as it's simply an omission. He obviously knew about them from the list he sent me, and they did indeed drop the 39C in 1968. He probably didn't mention the run in 1969 in his book because it wasn't all that significant to add to all the 39 details in his book.
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  8. #37
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    Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't the carbine barrel the same one that was used on the Golden Mountie, just a different rollmark?

  9. #38
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    Quite likely the same barrel. Waffletop, without any real reason your post brought to mind that a impressive number of Marlin roll dies were sold on e-Bay a couple of years or so back. It's interesting the way the rollmarks changed here and there throughout the production life of particular models. I imagine the roll dies wear relatively quickly, too.

    It would have been handy for me to remember while they were appearing on the auction sites... I also now recall me telling 'self to keep a watch out for dies matching Marlins I've collected, er, accumulated, and I have none.

    'tool

  10. #39
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    Roll dies often changed, and on more than one occasion roll dies were used on barrels that didn't line up with the model designation of the guns they were on. There's only theory why Marlin did this. Some say a mistake by a worker who didn't know any better. Others say the die broke and to continue production they simply grabbed another similar die for another model and used it. Whatever the reason, rollstamps don't always line up with the model.
    This isn't anything new either. It's happened since before Marlin even made repeating rifles. Back when they built only handguns, and single shot Ballard rifles there are examples of this mixing of rollstamps.
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  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waffletop View Post
    Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't the carbine barrel the same one that was used on the Golden Mountie, just a different rollmark?
    Just checked and a 69 Mountie is quite a bit heavier than the carbine.


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