1894 feeding issue side angle
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  1. #1
    Tenderfoot
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    1894 feeding issue side angle

    I have a new to me 1894CB in 44 mag. The rifle has about 50 rounds through it. When I first got it it had some feeding issues so I did the standard stuff: tighten screws, loosen extractor spring, polish extractor head(also reshaped it a little bit), smoothed out lever cam, etc. It now feeds much better except it still has one hiccup I haven't been able to fix. Sometimes which it tries to feed a round the rim of the round its feeding gets cocked out a little to the right(looking down the gun) so that the extractor head is pushing directly on the back of the rim instead of sliding around the side of it. This happens both with slow and fast cycling. I'll include a few pictures that hopefully show what I'm talking about

    I couldn't find anything about this specific issue in my research so I was hoping maybe somebody on here might have some suggestions. I have no problem doing some modifications(already reshaped and polished where the hammer and bolt interface), but I don't feel great about chamfuring the chamber(this is the only solution I've read about related to this issue). I've read that it could create an area for the brass to expand where it normally shouldn't which doesn't sound great. However if someone has experience doing that mod and then putting many thousands of rounds through it with no signs of issue I would feel better about it.

    The only other thing I was thinking of trying is the RPP Extractor, but I just ordered their cloverleaf sights and a softer loading gate so money is a little tight for new parts.
    IMG_20190317_143938098.jpg
    IMG_20190317_143932098.jpg

    Also here's a video to show the loading timing. I'll add another with a different angle in the next post. Hopefully these show the timing and lift height etc.
    Last edited by cmat1120; 03-17-2019 at 07:12 PM.

  2. #2
    Tenderfoot
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    The cartridge case rim is not slipping under the extractor when the bolt comes forward. It's staying in front of, and is being pushed by the extractor. This is wrong. You've got to find out why the case isn't sliding up under the extractor and up against the bolt face as it comes off the carrier.
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  5. #4
    Tenderfoot
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    It seems like the carrier is rising up too early then? I'll try and research how to change that. If anyone on here knows anything I'll take any advice as I haven't found much in my research other than the standard marlin jam fixes so far

    Doing some testing I found that if I slide the bullet back all the way after its pulled from the mag tube it will slide under the extractor easily. So I tested with a longer round. First I tried my swc loads that are crimped in the crimp groove. These are 1.68" and they slide under the extractor and load perfectly when the lever is operated slwoly, but if its operated quickly the bullet catches on the chamber. My swc loads that are loaded deeper than the crimp groove and have an OAL of 1.6" slide in under the extractor and seem to load fine slow or fast. The rnfp in the video is 1.55". The swc's actually seem to load better than the rnfp after I did the modifications I did earlier(they didnt feed well at all before). Are my rnfp loads just too short or is there something else wrong causing them to not slide under the extractor? Everyone says rnfp feed better in these rifles but all the rnfp rounds I can find have the same nose to crimp length as these ones.

    Also noticed that if the barrel is angled down it doesn't matter how long the cartridge is it wont slip under the extractor.

    Seems like if the action was tuned to perfectly slide the rim under the extractor that it would only work for one OAL and anything longer wouldn't feed and anything shorter would just be pushed into the chamber.
    Last edited by cmat1120; 03-19-2019 at 08:51 PM.

  6. #5
    Gun Wizard
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    Just my first thought, but could it be the lifter, rather than the bolt? I would drop out the lever and take a close look at the working surfaces on the lever itself. Any tell tale signs of excess wear or a previous owner messing about with a file? Next might be to inspect the lifter for the same.
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  7. #6
    CWT
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    I had the exact same issue. Your extractor spring is to stiff and not allowing it to slip over the lip of the case "before" it chambers which in turn allows the case to line up with the chamber sooner and not catching on the chamber entrance... follow these instructions and I believe you will fix your rifle >>> https://www.marlinowners.com/forum/j...-s-solved.html
    I also chamfered the chamber as well.

    Let us know if it works.
    Last edited by CWT; 03-20-2019 at 11:51 PM. Reason: wording
    Thanks dad for taking me hunting.

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  8. #7
    Tenderfoot
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    So yesterday I had worked on it a little more. The extractor was pretty good already very light and polished. I decided to chamfer the chamber today. I used a 1/2" countersink and probably only went in about 0.03" but I didn't notice much improvement over where I already was. I mostly decided to do the chamfer to help with any weird shape bullets I use in the future.

    Anyways I've found that it only does this when the rifle is tilted a little to the right and I work the action a little slower than normal but not so slow that the round falls out. I seems to me like there's no real way to solve this based on the way the marlin action works. It's also not something that would likely happen under normal shooting. After all this work I did notice the rifle will handle being tilted a little more than it would before and I can tilt it a ton if I work the action really fast. Overall it seems to feed pretty great now. I did order a rpp extractor. I don't expect it to do much over what I've already done, but if it helps a tiny bit that's a bonus over its benefits to extraction characteristics.

    Also for anyone saying the round should be sliding under the extractor. I really don't see how that's possible to tune for unless you shape the carrier in such a way that it actually holds the case all the way back, use a specific length round or always tilt the barrel upwarss. I could be wrong, but I don't see a way.

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    I just read the above post, so I had to go check. Both my 1894's, one a JM and one a Rem/Marlin catch the rim - it slides up against the bolt face as the round comes off the carrier while the bolt moves forward, the rim is under my extractor. It's 'controlled feed' as the expression says. I can extract and eject an unchambered round simply by moving the lever back. Something, whether it's your extractor nose shape or the projections at the bottom of the bolt face is preventing the round from sliding up under the extractor. Hopefully, the RPP unit helps. They make good products.
    Last edited by rob42049; 03-21-2019 at 12:32 AM.
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  10. #9
    Tenderfoot
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob42049 View Post
    I just read the above post, so I had to go check. Both my 1894's, one a JM and one a Rem/Marlin catch the rim - it slides up against the bolt face as the round comes off the carrier while the bolt moves forward, the rim is under my extractor. It's 'controlled feed' as the expression says. I can extract and eject an unchambered round simply by moving the lever back. Something, whether it's your extractor nose shape or the projections at the bottom of the bolt face is preventing the round from sliding up under the extractor. Hopefully, the RPP unit helps. They make good products.
    Hmm, thats interesting. I'm not sure what I could adjust to ensure that besides cutting the carrier in such a way that the rim gets "caught" at the very back of the carrier. My extractor is extremely loose(to the point that I'd have to stiffen it if I wanted to actually shoot and have decent ejections) and I have a new rifle so the bolt face has no legs on the bottom.

    The issue appears to be that my cartridge is simply lifted fully before the bolt face reaches the rim. Like I said before however, if I move the cartridge to the back of the carrier and then pull the lever in it slides under perfectly. The carriers are a little pricey at $80 + so I'm not sure its worth risking this one or buying an extra if it feeds well as is. If I was going to do that I might as well go full widdermatic, but I haven't found any guides for doing that on a 44 only 357.

    Also a couple things that might be easy that would help a lot: Could you tell me your oal for that round? And could you test the action with the barrel angled pretty far down and see if it still feeds under the extractor or gets pushed from behind?

    Also did some more testing and with my round thats oal is 1.685 it feeds under the rim every time. This round takes up all of the space on the carrier so its rim is pushed to the very back by the magazine follower.

    Thank you
    Last edited by cmat1120; 03-21-2019 at 12:58 AM.
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  11. #10
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    When the barrel is pointed down, the round does not slide under the extractor, it slides forward and chambers itself in both 1894's.

    I never measured my loads, they're Nosler 240 JSP's or 240 Hornady XTP's crimped at the top of the cannelure. I did notice over the years that my genuine JM can be finicky. She likes jacketed and cast bullet RNFP reloads on the long side, and she absolutely 100% refuses to feed Keith type SWC nose shapes. My Remlin is not picky at all. It feeds anything-- short, long, cast, jacketed, flatpoint, SWC's, and conicals smoother than smooth.
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