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  1. #21
    Gun Wizard
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    The guy I talked to in the store is into black powder a bit. He said it is nice and tight and mechanically functional. He said the timing is right on, it still has good rifling and he wouldn't be scared to shoot it. No way to tell for sure without seeing it. They have it on consignment from a private collector.
    Quote Originally Posted by tranteruk View Post
    Well looks a little rough to be honest. No finish, obviously and pitting everywhere. It would have to be a very good price or best left alone. Of course, we cant all afford the best quality antique guns, and sometimes buying a rough one is a way someone with limited funds can still own one. So, no harm no foul. Even so, if you want a shooter, as long as its tight and safe a rougher one might be better. Cant really say without handling it, especially checking the bore and chambers. Some pitting will be OK, but not if deep.

    Does the action work and the cylinder index (When you cock the hammer the cylinder turns, lines up and the cylinder stop clicks in) and lock up? cant see any drag marks on the cylinder, is the barrel - frame tight? I have seen some really wobbly ones. If not, stay away.

    I am going to take a stab in the dark on price. I cant imagine he wants less than $500.00 and no more than $1000.00. Maybe $650.00ish? I am out of date on values and not in the US, but wouldnt want to pay too much. Great thing with antiques is if you buy with care you should always be able to get your money back when selling it on.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyHill View Post
    Well I checked with the store and talked with the salesman while he had it in his hands. He confirmed that the numbers match so that has to be worth something too even if it has some wear and tear. Here are the pics. What do you think ?
    I would be most concerned whether:

    You can get the original nipples out.

    Condition of the chambers. No deep pits. Frosting OK.

    Condition of bore. No rings, strong rifling, frosted bore to be expected due to age but few deep pits.

    Fit of barrel wedge. You want barrel-cylinder gap not over 0.012"

    Function of lockwork, timing and indexing.
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  3. #23
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    BH,

    I fully understand your reasons for what you want to do with that 1860 coal burner. I sympathize.

    However, do you really think that anyone official who stops you will know and understand the law? Will that person recognize your revolver as an antique? Or will it be confiscated and held until the complaint against you is litigated? Is there a chance if that happens that the revolver will be confiscated regardless? Possibly destroyed in the meantime?

    Point is that you can't assume that any LEO who stops you will have any idea of what you have there, its history, or its value, except that it is a GUN, and that it was carried concealed without proper papers. How could you prove it was otherwise on the spur of the moment?

    Do you have any other option for carry? How would you conveniently carry something of that size?
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  5. #24
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    My only other options right now are to buy an expensive antique cartridge revolver which have jumped in price to about $ 2500 Canadian and up, or try to get a wilderness carry permit, which is almost impossible unless you actually live and work in the wilderness. They don't really see remote wilderness camping as a good enough excuse to get a wilderness carry permit. The Conservatives have talked about giving us some slack with wilderness carry but right now the Liberals are in power and they are working even harder to restrict what gun right we currently do have. Most of the guys that I know of who carry a true antique revolver as prescribed by our laws also carry a letter of authenticity that you can get from the Chief Firearms Officer confirming that the gun with that serial number is indeed antique status. If they get hassled by the authorities they just show them the letter. I figure it's better to have all of that prepared ahead of time than to try to win an argument with a rookie cop who THINKS they know the laws . The definition of an " antique " firearm is also available on the RCMP web page. It is not difficult to prove the point if you are prepared ahead of time.
    Quote Originally Posted by HIKayaker View Post
    BH,

    I fully understand your reasons for what you want to do with that 1860 coal burner. I sympathize.

    However, do you really think that anyone official who stops you will know and understand the law? Will that person recognize your revolver as an antique? Or will it be confiscated and held until the complaint against you is litigated? Is there a chance if that happens that the revolver will be confiscated regardless? Possibly destroyed in the meantime?

    Point is that you can't assume that any LEO who stops you will have any idea of what you have there, its history, or its value, except that it is a GUN, and that it was carried concealed without proper papers. How could you prove it was otherwise on the spur of the moment?

    Do you have any other option for carry? How would you conveniently carry something of that size?
    Last edited by BillyHill; 12-02-2019 at 07:00 PM.
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  6. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by northmn View Post
    ould you carry a 22 mag. They have a good zip to them. A 22LR is not a bad pistol to carry either but they may frown on them. I have a 22 mag lever I carry on the tractor all the time. It would not be all bad and while maybe not as powerful as a 44 Colt its not far off and more accurate. Also a heck of a lot less fuss. DEP
    If the OP were in the US that would be an option, but in Canada for reasons described in his several posts, he cannot carry a modern cartridge handgun in the bush.

    A genuine antique cap & ball, not a reproduction, gets through the loop holes in their firearm and game laws.
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  7. #26
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    BH,

    Have you considered finding and carrying a 1873 St. Etienne revolver? They are double action. Check it out on Gun Broker.
    Original caliber was 11mm, centerfire, but they are often found with cylinders slightly enlarged to fire 45 acp.
    I had one that in that condition that was a WWII bring back, until very recently.
    They are beautifully machined, reliable, and built like a brick outhouse.

    I don't know anything about the black powder 11 mm round, but there has to be some way you could form it. And since you would be shooting holy black anyway... Can't speak to the safety of the 45 acp in this revolver, but I know it has been done. If you find one that has been converted for the 45 acp, you could load those with black powder.
    NRA Endowment Life Member, SASS, OGCA, NC Watermen United
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  8. #27
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    I have been looking at all the sources I can find for antique status handguns. Unfortunately even if a handgun was built before 1898 it is still considered a restricted weapon in Canada if it is in a caliber that still has readily available ammunition. We have some very stupid gun laws. An 1873 Colt SAA in 44 Russian or 41 Long Colt built before 1898 is antique status and I don't need a permit or license to own and use one. If that same gun is made in 44-40 It is considered a restricted weapon and is subject to all the regulation that apply to any modern handgun. If that 1873 SAA is in 32-20 It is a PROHIBITED Weapon ( because it is .32 caliber ) and you need a special license usually only available if you already have prohib collector status. I can still find Brass for 44 Russian and 41 Long Colt but most of the guns I can find are quite pricey $$$$$. About 10 years ago I could have picked up a Schofield 44 Russian for about $800, now they are selling for $2500.
    Quote Originally Posted by HIKayaker View Post
    BH,

    Have you considered finding and carrying a 1873 St. Etienne revolver? They are double action. Check it out on Gun Broker.
    Original caliber was 11mm, centerfire, but they are often found with cylinders slightly enlarged to fire 45 acp.
    I had one that in that condition that was a WWII bring back, until very recently.
    They are beautifully machined, reliable, and built like a brick outhouse.

    I don't know anything about the black powder 11 mm round, but there has to be some way you could form it. And since you would be shooting holy black anyway... Can't speak to the safety of the 45 acp in this revolver, but I know it has been done. If you find one that has been converted for the 45 acp, you could load those with black powder.

  9. #28
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    Your labyrinthine laws are obviously having their intended effect.

    My condolences.
    NRA Endowment Life Member, SASS, OGCA, NC Watermen United
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  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyHill View Post
    Well I checked with the store and talked with the salesman while he had it in his hands. He confirmed that the numbers match so that has to be worth something too even if it has some wear and tear. Here are the pics. What do you think ?
    If the numbers all match, including that under the wedge, and on the cylinder and it is mechanically sound and indexes properly and the nipples aren't broken and look original that revolver in my neck of the woods would sell for between $ 1400.00 and $ 1800.00 Canadian even with that loss of finish and pitting. The trigger screw looks broken at the end but it's easily replaceable. None of the screw heads have been buggered up fortunately. I agree that if you plan to use it I would ensure that the nipples can be removed with a wrench because you're going to have to clean them. Beautifully balanced and aesthetically designed revolver with that creeping loading lever.
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  11. #30
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    Yes that sounds about right for the price where I live too. This one is at the low end of that price range.
    Quote Originally Posted by smithywess View Post
    If the numbers all match, including that under the wedge, and on the cylinder and it is mechanically sound and indexes properly and the nipples aren't broken and look original that revolver in my neck of the woods would sell for between $ 1400.00 and $ 1800.00 Canadian even with that loss of finish and pitting. The trigger screw looks broken at the end but it's easily replaceable. None of the screw heads have been buggered up fortunately. I agree that if you plan to use it I would ensure that the nipples can be removed with a wrench because you're going to have to clean them. Beautifully balanced and aesthetically designed revolver with that creeping loading lever.


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