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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by navajo View Post
    couldn't agree more with you on the 257 roberts.
    i have two of them. great all around cal for the stuff i hunt.
    too much gun depends on who you ask...
    And what they're shooting at.
    At the low end you have varmints - which can be near or far.
    Then deer and Muley deer - which are usually closer in < 200 yds, thin skinned.
    Then you get into big game like bears, elk, moose - medium to far away
    Then you have sheep and antelope which are almost always far away.
    So of course the amount of gun is always going to reflect a wise choice as to what prey and where.
    Too much gun IMHO is an error in selecting the proper gun.
    Bearcat 74 and Gareth Holland like this.
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  2. #12
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    While hunting in Pennsylvania, I've killed a number of deer with a .270. I am a "behind the shoulder" shooter, so I've never felt I've lost a lot of usable meat even with my .270. When hunting Ohio, I used to use a .50 inline muzzleloader, but since the legality of straight-walled rilfe cartridges for deer, I've been using a .45/70. I see no real difference between my ML and my .45/70, even though I load the latter hot (either a 405-grain cast with gas check or a Speer 400-grain JSP) both with a MV of 1,800 fps. I realize that, whether the .270, the ML, or my .45/70, they're all more than is needed to anchor a whitetail. But, they're what I have, I shoot them well, and I'm so darned big and bulky that recoil is not an issue.
    Last edited by Judson; 06-14-2019 at 11:03 AM.
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  3. #13
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    I read a number of comments about excessive meat loss with this or that cartridge, the writer saying that the meat loss was just excessive when what they really should have said was that they were using bullets that lacked integrity.

    I agree with the poster a few posts back about the behind the shoulder shot, as that is also my preference, but I like to couple that with bullet not known for excessively rapid expansion and destruction.

    Hornady, a good company in most ways does have a few loads or bullets made to sell with little thought of reasonable expansion. One example is the gummy nose FTX bullet that when coupled with the 45/70 has been well proven to expand excessively should heavy bone or muscle be impacted. Hornady could fix that!

    Another is their "White Tail" line of loaded ammo specifically in the 7mm mag and the 300mag where they load light for cartridge bullets but maintain normal high velocity levels when a decrease in velocity by 500fps or possibly more would have left the white tails just as dead but without the grenade like results.

    Speer makes a 150gr boat tail bullet - not a hotcore - for the .270, and while it can be quite accurate, it has proven to be excessively destructive. This is a bullet selection problem, and not a caliber/cartridge problem!

    No, the choice is ours, and if we choose to load and hunt with light for caliber bullets that are short on integrity, or even a bullet weight optimum for the cartridge but short on integrity (the Speer 150gr - .270 bullet) we should not complain if the 270 or any other cartridge appears to cause excessive meat loss.

    This is not a case of, "Too Much Gun," but rather a situation of poor bullet choice!

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearcat 74 View Post
    A kid I coached in football is a grown man now and we talk every couple of days, he's a gun nut like I am. He is a good shot but when it comes time to drill fur he kind of falls apart. He shot a deer 3-4 times with a 35 rem and about lost the animal. He moved to a 280 rem, 5 shots into a deer and it was finally down, moved to a 30-06 and 2-4 shots were needed. All these were 30-75yd shots

    He moved to a 7RM and then to a 300WM, the 300 required 2 shots on a small doe around 200yds. Why? Poor bullets with the fast movers and poor shooting overall. I've finally talked him into shooting more, getting more comfortable making shots and calming himself on critter killin'. He called last year and asked my thoughts on the .223 with good bullets on our deer. I told him hitting them where your supposed to with the right bullet you'll have no trouble.

    My phone starts blowing up from him in late November one day. I finally got ahold of him, he can't really talk, I was afraid he had fallen and got hurt.

    I was wrong, lol.


    13pts, 179lbs dressed, grossed 143 1/2" with a .223 Rem at 50yds on the point of the shoulder as he was seeking a doe. Total distance traveled after the hit, about 3 feet. Bullet busted the near shoulder, clipped the spine, pulped both lungs, broke some offside ribs and was found just breaking the hide right in front of the flank.

    Hard to argue that




    and you'll get no such argument from me.
    i just always suggest that is a 223 will work, why wouldn't
    a 257 work better?
    but then the whole how much gun do you need thing comes back around...
    Navajo
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  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by navajo View Post
    and you'll get no such argument from me.
    i just always suggest that is a 223 will work, why wouldn't
    a 257 work better?
    but then the whole how much gun do you need thing comes back around...

    I hear you. Can you tell me how would anything larger would have worked better? Where would the improvements have been?


    I made a similar shot on a doe, smaller than his buck by a good margin with a 300gr bonded .458 bullet. It expanded larger, penetration was near equal, tracking distance was the same. More recoil didn't improve the outcome, a heavier bullet and more powder burned didn't change anything. My recovered bullet is 270grs, his was in the 40's if I remember right and they both dug to pretty much the same spot. My deer was no deader than his.


    I'm not saying everyone should be deer hunting with a .223, far from it. For a guy that knows how to shoot, and picks his bullet I do think they are effective but if a guys doesn't want to shoot a .223 they're not the cartridge for him. But, I think that works for most cartridges. I wouldn't deer hunt with a 300WM and a 110 Vmax just like I wouldn't hunt with a 223 and a 40gr Vmax.


    What if he wouldn't have made a good shot? Well, he's tried that with larger cartridges and shot animals full of holes because all that powder and bullet mass didn't overcome poor placement.


    Again, purely my opinion, but hitting them where your supposed to with a good bullet matters a lot more than what you're hitting them with in regards to medium sized game.


    Shoot what your comfortable with, confident in and proficient with.
    Last edited by Bearcat 74; 06-14-2019 at 12:34 PM.
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  7. #16
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    Just my simple rule of thumb for small to medium sized game irrespective of calibre. A bullet that will pass completely through on a broad side shot, but on a 45d 3/4 frontal shot may or may not pass through the diaphragm. Better if it does exit just as you have 2 holes too bleed. A bullet that will pass through and still fell 2 trees is either too heavy or to tough or both for the class of game concerned. Please note this is for game up to medium size, the bigger stuff is something else give be my 300wm or 9.3x62.
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  8. #17
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    I own or have owned a couple of bigger guns. 300 Weatherby 458 Lott etc but I pretty much just shoot 270 and 45-70 these days.
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  9. #18
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    never knew you could have too much gun..............I would think it would be more of a problem to not have enough gun when the time comes, hunting or protection. yall are overthinking the problem.
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  10. #19
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    Too much gun? I prefer to think of it as "not enough animal."
    eastbank and flatsneck like this.
    "If you can remember all of the guns you own, you don't have enough." -- Me

    "Only accurate rifles are interesting." -- Col. Townsend Whelen

  11. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusty Deary Ol Coot View Post
    Another is their "White Tail" line of loaded ammo specifically in the 7mm mag and the 300mag where they load light for cartridge bullets but maintain normal high velocity levels when a decrease in velocity by 500fps or possibly more would have left the white tails just as dead but without the grenade like results.

    This is not a case of, "Too Much Gun," but rather a situation of poor bullet choice!

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
    Unfortunately there are those that call themselves "hunters" I've heard brag about the size of the hole their weapon left in the deer.
    So perhaps these rounds are targeting these people.
    "The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it."
    George Orwell


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