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  1. #21
    Gun Wizard
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    Close range shotgun defence, ultra fast accurate shooting of a buckshot group, sights only slow you down. What I do with my buckshot deer drive shotguns and grouse guns is this. Place a large target at 30 yards (23 yards for grouse guns), front bead off gun, bring gun up fast and shot for center of target as fast as possible, observe group. Remove barrel from gun, slide tight fitting dowel rod down barrel, wrap large tree with towel, wang barrel against tree, to slightly bend barrel in desired direction to bring pattern to center of target and repeat until dead center hits happen fast without sights. This way, the pattern will go where you point it fast, sights or no sights. Having completed this, put the bead back on and double check pattern. Actually both my current drive shotguns, both 3inch 12 ga, have wanged barrels as described, one a smooth bore Browning Auto 5 Buck Special, and the other a Ithaca 87 smooth bore Deer Slayer which each have rifle sights set to 50 yards for long shots, but most kills are more along the line of close range snap shops where the sights are not even referenced.
    Last edited by graymustang; 06-14-2019 at 12:38 AM.
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  2. #22
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    With a single front bead, you could be looking directly over the bead and not aligning it flush with the rear receiver. All shotguns and various loads will impact/pattern differently so it's good you tried it out. While you could more than get away with the front bead with some more practice and holds, I prefer ghost ring sights. They're very accurate, reliable, and often cheap.

    Nothing wrong with a holographic type sight as there are many on every price range. However, when my life is on the line I do not like to rely on the possibility of a battery or electrical problem and it not working. My shotgun for work is a 14" 870 with a single front bead and it works well. My personal shotgun/off duty has a ghost ring and I greatly prefer it.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyHill View Post
    Winchester SXP Defender. Lightweight, handy ,and a very slick action, It kicks pretty good with buckshot loads and thumps even harder with slugs. I might add a better recoil pad too.
    The Kick-Ezz pad works great. I added one to a light weight Mossberg 12ga and it seemed to cut recoil in half.
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  5. #24
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    Foster slugsEdit

    A Remington 870 12 gauge with sighted cylinder bore barrel suitable for Foster Slugs and Buckshot.


    A Foster slug, invented by Karl M. Foster in 1931, and patented in 1947 (U.S. Patent 2,414,863) is a type of shotgun slug designed to be fired through a smoothboreshotgun barrel. It was designed to enable deer hunting in the Great Depression using smoothbore, choked shotguns. Foster cast them by hand from soft lead, filed grooves on their exteriors, and sold them to his neighbors to improve hunting potential to feed their families. The Foster is the standard American domestic shotgun slug; they are sometimes referred to as "American slugs" to differentiate them from the standard "European slug" design popularized earlier by Brenneke. Some sportswriters have consistently referred to these slugs as a "Forster" slugs, conflating the name with the Forster Brothers who manufactured reloading tools during the same time frame, so "Forster slug" is an alternate spelling that is commonly seen in the popular press of the 1930s for describing these slugs.
    The defining characteristic of the Foster slug is the deep hollow in the rear, which places the center of mass very near the front tip of the slug, much like a shuttlecock or a pellet from an airgun. If the slug begins to yaw in flight, drag will tend to push the lightweight rear of the slug back into straight flight, stabilizing the slug. This gives the Foster slug stability and allows for accurate shooting through smoothbore barrels out to ranges of about 75 yards (69 m).
    Most Foster slugs also have "rifling", which consists of ribs on the outside of the slug. Like the Brenneke, these ribs impart a rotation on the slug to correct for manufacturing irregularities, thus improving precision (i.e., group size.)[6] Unlike traditional rifling, the rotation of the slug imparts no significant gyroscopic stabilization.[7] The ribs also minimize the friction on both the barrel and projectile and allow the slug to be swaged down safely when fired through a choke. Foster slugs can safely be swaged down much more than Brenneke slugs, when fired through a choke, being hollow, however recommendations are generally for cylinder bore or improved cylinder chokes.
    Roll-crimping is traditionally used to close a shotgun shell containing a Foster slug. This increases the difficulty for handloading Foster slugs. During the 1930s, though, many if not most shotgun shells were roll-crimped over an overshot card, and hand tools for putting a roll crimp on a paper shell were readily available and very inexpensive.

    Edit



    BillyHill, 4mynra, M700 and 1 others like this.
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  6. #25
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    So now we know it is a Winchester SXP extended mag pump with a smooth bore barrel and we will have to assume that the receiver is drilled and tapped on the top and not on the side. The OP wants something simple to use for sights that don't require further modification to the gun

    So since it is already drilled and tapped, I would think a weaver or picatinny style rail would allow endless options, including optics. But keep in mind this is a weapon that will be used to keep you from getting killed and eaten so what works fastest for you is the key. Also keep in mind the recoil from a slug. You need a sight that will tolerate this recoil. I have tried both cheap red dots and cheap scopes. None survived the experience.

    Also as others have said, the barrel in this type of gun moves in relationship to the receiver. Not the best for long range accuracy. Since your intended purpose is bear defense, this should not be a problem as the distance will be under 50 yards. A 12 gauge Foster style slug, no matter who makes it, is a formidable projectile within those 50 yards.
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  7. #26
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    Williams makes Guide series that will fit rear scope base holes. The sight is slip adjustable for windage and elevation and locked with a screw. The sight has several options and one is for aperature. I have one on a 10/22 Ruger and have had them on 742/760 Rems and Marlin levers.
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  8. #27
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    Now we have no bears in the UK, but I have a very good friend in Vernon BC who has worked as a bear guide and a Bear trapper. Pete's answer for a self defence bear gun when following up wounded bears is a 3" side by side cut down to 1/4" over the legal limit. Carried muzzle down on a sling removed for follow up work as you don't want it hung up.. In Pete's own words when dealing with a charge smack em in the face with the first barrel (no 5's) take out the eyes and nose (Sensitive organ) this will sit en down nip round and stuff the other barrel in the ear and ventilate the brain. He told me he had only bean charged by 8 bears and 1 or 2 of those still woke him up at night in a cold sweat.

    I had asked him about his 45-70, the answer was very simple no time he said, apart from the brush being flattened in front of you as he charges you might not see him until he is 10ft away. No time to aim he said. He has not been caught yet, to each his own Gar.
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  9. #28
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    Thumping on tree might work but I built a barrel straightener that is powered with 1/2" rachet. Have it on heaving square tubing that I drilled through 3/8" holes to adjust the position of barrel supports which are lined with leather. I can also change position of drive which is also line with leather. It is easier to bend one to point of aim than to straighten one. I had never adjusted a 18" shot gun most are 28-30". Some long mod choke barrels will produce excellent groups at 100yds on Ithaca 37s. I have had factory slug
    barrels that just won't group. Put them on different guns, shimmed barrel shanks and barrel nut and they still shoot all over? I guess they are just lemons. On older model shotguns I have cut off, I've never had one that wouldn't group. I think it is that the newer guns barrels are not as well made. In cutting them off you can see with you eye that wall thickness varies from side to side.
    If this is true on 30" it would make sense the same thing occurs in slug & riot barrels. In other words barrel is straight but bored wonders a little. Like any other gun, what is used for is what determines the degree of accuracy needed. At SD ranges for bear attacks sights aren't that much advantage. Myself I would have a ghost ring anyway.
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  10. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillyHill View Post
    Winchester SXP Defender. Lightweight, handy ,and a very slick action, It kicks pretty good with buckshot loads and thumps even harder with slugs. I might add a better recoil pad too.
    I believe XS sights makes a ghost ring for the Winchester.
    Last edited by maki00; 06-14-2019 at 07:24 PM.




  11. #30
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    Bradley beads are mounted on a threaded pedestal and you can select a higher or larger diameter bead to adjust point of impact.

    These are widely used for skeet or trap shooting, but they work great on hunting guns as well:

    https://www.midwayusa.com/bradley-gunsight/b?bid=2328

    https://bradleygunsight.com/products

    The different bead sizes and colors available afford the serious shooter a convenient means of altering the impact area of his shots without resorting to costly gun modifications. A smaller sight and dull bead will cause a raising of the impact area, while a slight lowering effect can usually be achieved through use of a larger, brighter bead.
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