Why did I choose the .450 Marlin?
I hunt and with the .30-06 or the 8x57 I get good results, but varied performance depending on where I hit.
Sometimes, especially on our small roe deer, I’d have Federal Fusion or Blaser CDP go through almost like a FMJ and they’d run 50 to 100 meters into the brush.
In contrast if I’d hit slightly into the intestines or the shoulder I would have them almost gutted with huge wounds cavities or there’d be significant bruising.
What I hope is, that due to the lower speed of the.450 I am going to get more consistent performance either on heart lung or if I hit shoulder.
And why the .450 Marlin and not .45-70 or a .458 WinMag?
I already have a Winchester Mod.70 that I experimented with and will continue to do so, to find a 4000-5000Joule 300-400gn bullet load that works too, but it doesn’t feed smaller than 500gn bullets so well.
Then I came across the Lever Guns on some hunts and saw they did quite well and are pretty handy short guns.
So I did some research and finally decided I would go for the .450 Marlin over the .45-70 because its CIP norm allows to run it at the high pressure, vs. the 45-70 where everyone does it despite the CIP norm.
But I don’t want to take that risk, in case something ever happens I want to be on the safe side.
I didn't choose it so much as I chose the gun. The Winchester '94 Trails End in .450M was the only one that came with a nice recoil pad. I'm happy with both the gun and the caliber.
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So I did some research and finally decided I would go for the .450 Marlin over the .45-70 because its CIP norm allows to run it at the high pressure, vs. the 45-70 where everyone does it despite the CIP norm.
But I don’t want to take that risk, in case something ever happens I want to be on the safe side.
I started with the 444 and then added a few 45-70's I guess I need the 450 to have the big three. I find I grab the 444 most frequently.
good luck hunting with your 450, enjoy!
Everyone always was giving me grief about shooting my 22 lrs'. I have about 50 of them. So I decided to go big bore. Fell in love with a Winchester 94 Timber Carbine, fancy wood, XS Ghost ring sights, ported barrel, 5# 15 oz. They aint laughing now.
I have shoot a lot on .22lr pistols and rifles and still quite a few because they are great cheap practice to build muscle memory. When I brought out my custom .375 H&H the only questions were why do you carry that cannon? I carried it for a few reasons. One reason was I hunted blowdown timber for elk which is similar to jump shooting white tailed deer so you would only get one fast snap. At best the shot would be at a sharply quartering away running elk at close range and back when I had the rifle made there was no better cartridge than a .375 H&H with 300 grain Nosler or Barnes TSX bullets for deep big wound channels & smashing big bones. My second reason I hunted in grizzly country and any bear I was likely to bump would be really close so I wanted to make as serious an impression as I could with the only shot I was likely to get before one made contact. I have a 10 shoot S&W that balances somewhat like my Ruger Super RedHawk 7.5" I carry loaded with Randy Garrett 330gr, Hammerheads. Who know when touch on of those babies of but they are last ditch get the grizzly on me after the rifle has been swatted away. Once upon a time I shoot a minimum of 50-100 rounds a day in practice before I ever picked up the big guns. Anyone that gives you grief for shooting a .22lr. a lot in practice does not know what they are talking about. Keep up that practice.
A couple of friends and I went bunny hunting and I always took my Ruger .22lr auto with a 5" bull barrel. One of them popped of; "can you hit anything with that .22 auto" on out first hunt? There was a small frozen waterhole next to the road so I pulled off since we were all in my 4x4. I said "well lets see" so we walked over to the edge of the frozen pond. I knew I had an old spent .410 shell in my coat's pocket and threw it out on the ice. I walked the spent .410 shell across the ice with five shoots as fast I could aim and fire. Then I looked at my friends. The one that asked about my .22 auto commented, "I guess he can shoot that thing; I know I could not do that." I shot several bunnies on the run one of which "my fiends said was out of their range." It was running strait away so I watched its steady leaps and squeezed off a shot just as the rabbit reached the top of a jump, hitting it in the back of the head which flipped it stone dead at the shot. The guy that had questioned my choice of rabbit hunting armament blurted out I would not have believed it if I had not seen it. No further comments were made about my .22 other than my other friend asking me; what are you shooting in that thing as I have never seen a .22 do damage like that? CCI .22 LR Stingers I told him. "Man I got to get me some of those" he said. He was shooting his 6" S&W .44mag with shot shells.
I like the .450 Marlin and the hot-rod .45-70 loads both! The advantage the .450 Marlin has is that it comes in a box fed premium lever action which allows the use of better B.C. pointed bullets that you can not safely feed in a tube fed lever action. That is no small advantage if you hunt where the shots may come at longer ranges.
So I did some research and finally decided I would go for the .450 Marlin over the .45-70 because its CIP norm allows to run it at the high pressure, vs. the 45-70 where everyone does it despite the CIP norm.
But I don’t want to take that risk, in case something ever happens I want to be on the safe side.
There are specifications for 45-70 that depend on the gun. Lee Second edition lists "45-70 U.S. Government" for any gun, 45-70 Model 95 Lever Action, and 45-70 Modern rifle. Each with progressively higher pressure limits. Are you referring to the U.S. Government loads? Full loads in 45-70 will darn near take your shoulder out. Why would you want more? Can you explain what the risk is? I have been reloading for barely 2 years and I do not understand what you are getting at.
There are specifications for 45-70 that depend on the gun. Lee Second edition lists "45-70 U.S. Government" for any gun, 45-70 Model 95 Lever Action, and 45-70 Modern rifle. Each with progressively higher pressure limits. Are you referring to the U.S. Government loads? Full loads in 45-70 will darn near take your shoulder out. Why would you want more? <img src="http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/images/smilies/smiley.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Smiley" class="inlineimg" /> Can you explain what the risk is? I have been reloading for barely 2 years and I do not understand what you are getting at.
Pretty simple, with the .450M you’re inside CIP specification at full house loads, with the .45-70 the max allowed pressure is a lot less.
Let’s say there is an accident, projectile strikes a hard object, comes back and injures one of your hunting buddies.
Law Enforcement may seize the gun and ammo.
Scenario 1: all things check out, they check your ammo and it’s according to CIP norms. It’s ruled an accident.
Scenario 2: you’ve made a hot as heck load outside of CIP, but inside the safe limits for 1895 lever guns, the outcome may be that you are at least partially at fault due to your overpowered (Against CIP spec) hand loads.
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but I don't see a big future for the .450 Marlin.
I'm not doubting the superior ballistics of the .450, and the safer pressure limits that it provides, but isn't the .45/70 enough of a 'shoulder cannon' for most? Besides, anyone who is dangerously 'hot rodding' the .45/70 is likely to do the same with the .450.
I think that to anyone other than a Marlin aficionado, or someone who is determined to have the biggest gun in the forest, the Marlin .450 is likely to have much poorer sales than the .45/70.
The .45/70 has a great history behind it, and is plenty enough gun to kill anything that it's pointed at. It has such of a foothold in the market that it will be really hard for the .450 to make real inroads.
I'm the first to admit that I could be wrong. A lot of people said these things about the .444 (which personally, I own and love), when It was introduced.
Pickle Farmer! I think you hit the nail on the head. Only two reasons I think the 450 outshines the 45-70. If you don't reload ammo the 450 is more powerful than the 45-70, having said that the application of a big thumper like the 450M is very small! Maybe bear hunting ( that's why I bought mine), Moose, i.e. Guide Gun! I choose it because I wanted to have more power than the 45-70 and don't like hot rodding the 45-70 past it's design. I know a lot of people do it but not me. So I agree that there isn't much the 450 can do that the 45-70 can't. I was hoping the 450 would replace the 45-70 but I think the recoil is just too much for some, none of my friends will shoot mine! I have taken Bear, Hog and many deer and I just love the thing but I am not recoil sensitive.
I wondered the same thing. A picture is worth a thousand words:
And I just found out that Marlin stopped the production of model 1895M in .450 Marlin in 2009. I've never in my entire life wanted a .450 Marlin. Now I do. How does that work? :banghead:
I an am pretty sure it will not actually fit but it would not be something you should do anyways. I know a 450 was designed to not be able to fit in a 45/70 chamber.
I have many different calibers as well as duplicate calibers in Marlins. I did everything I needed for years with a Remington Model 788 243. Varmits to whitetail, but big bore Marlins are fun!
150-200 fps faster with 350 gr bullets with a 100 yard zero gives you...
a little better than an inch at 150 yards, and about 4" better at 200 yards than 45-70
for folks not interested in reloading, 450M is probably a good choice.
for folks that want to reload, there's just so much more reloading data available for 45-70
Not only that, the barrel has V threads vs Acme threads, the magazine is a narrower diameter and the ejection port is smaller. All of these make the 450M action stronger than the 45/70 action.
I never bought .450M factory ammo. I bought 200 cases along with the rifle. I can load from mild to wild. I can even duplicate .45-70 stout loads with less powder. Plus the .450 case is much thicker and will last considerably longer than the brittle .45-70 cases. The .450Marlin is a far more versatile cartridge than the .45-70
The ONLY factor that resulted in me getting a .450 as opposed to a .45-70 was that there was a .450 MR for sale; they are sort of rare; and I bought it. While the .450 is typically a trifle more powerful than the .45-70, I would imagine the critters do NOT notice the difference. Dead is dead.
My opinion is that the 450 was developed to keep higher pressure rounds from being used in older rifles made for the 45-70. The 45-70 is capable of anything a 450 is. The 450 is a cartridge designed for the non reloader. YMMV. I'll stick with the 45-70.
The 450 Marlin is a fine gun . I handled a JM stamped model 1895m carbine at Cabelas gun library .I was impressed with balance, handling, fit and finish. If i hadn't already bought my 444 I would have been tempted.
The .450 Marlin is to the 45/70 what the.375 is to the 38-55. In both cases the old black powder round has stuck around while the modern cartridge languishes . Lever gun owners are an interesting group of people
The same folks who buy a 450 Marlin also bought SAUMs, WSSMs, 5mm rimfires, 22 Jets, 17 Machs. 9mm shotguns and Edsels.
It's fun (as long as the airline doesn't lose your ammo !)
BTW 45-70 Buffalo Bore ammo is equal to or + 450 Marlin.
Full disclosure - I own three 7x61 rifles and had a 300 SAUM AR.
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