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  1. #11
    Gun Wizard
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    The Grizzly I had to shoot I used a shorter barrel (18") Marlin 45-70 loaded with heavy Buffalo Bore ammo. I had already shot it with 3 rounds of 300 WSM and it was still moving toward our camp where we had guests. It was going to die from two of those shots. One round of the 45-70 stopped and likely killed it. I don't know as by that time I moved to the side and put one more insurance round into him. Most important by far was shot placement as noted earlier and a great dog that kept distracting the bear as it was trained to do.

    Hunting one? I have never done that but friends who are guides to a person (One is a classic Alaska skilled, tough, sharp woman.) hate ported, braked rifles. LOUD and end the ability to hear at an awkward moment. General rule is learn to safely, smoothly work a rifle of suitable power for animal hunted. If it requires a port or brake find another rifle or practice more.

    You have a great rifle in the Marlin 45-70. Properly loaded and used they are power tools for anything in North America to hunt.
    Last edited by AlaskaDawg; 02-26-2016 at 03:45 PM.
    "We who live in Alaska do not bear ill will to those who live in the Lower 48. Someone has to do it and we prefer it be you and not us." W.P.Thompson
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  2. #12
    Tenderfoot
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    Officer29, reloading is on the horizon, just on the distant horizon...for now, I rely on BB, Hornady and HSM to get me through days at the range. Any cast boolit makers you recommend?

  3. #13
    Gun Wizard
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeverBoomStick View Post
    Officer29, reloading is on the horizon, just on the distant horizon...for now, I rely on BB, Hornady and HSM to get me through days at the range. Any cast boolit makers you recommend?
    If your going to use commercial ammo to start with for hunting HSM makes a fine round and also Cor Bon makes a great round for hunting. Sorry about info for cast boolit makers. I cast my own 405gr with a GC and also a 465gr with a GC. I'm sure someone here on the forum buys their cast boolits and can steer you in the right direction. I believe HSM and Cor Bon both make the 430gr cast with a large meplat and that round will take anything you hunt or come across including dino's. Also that is a fine looking rifle. You done well.
    Bill
    Team 45-70 #1569


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  5. #14
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    Number 1 rule I learn when bear hunting is to hunt with someone slower than you. And hey now, I know some of y'all thunk that so dont lie.
    Marlin

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  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjadams61 View Post
    Number 1 rule I learn when bear hunting is to hunt with someone slower than you. And hey now, I know some of y'all thunk that so dont lie.
    I still tell that joke every so often.

    T.S.
    mjadams61 and gunscrewguy like this.
    NRA Endowment Member, Texas State Rifle Association Life Member, Firearms Accumulator, Native Texan, Team 99 #29

  7. #16
    Sidewinder
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    i have back up shot numerous black bears with a marauder carbine in 30-30 170 grain and a homemade 375 marlin marauder carbine in 250 grain, im new to the 45-70 it seems like most of what you here on this forum is hunting with a 45-70 shoots 400 plus grain bullets do the 300,325 weight bullets not perform decent out of a 45-70 my neighbor shoots federal 300 grain soft points on bear and swears by them ,any input would be appreciated

  8. 02-26-2016, 07:11 PM

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  9. #17
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    No to porting. Between 1350-1700 you should need it. Spend the money on a good Marlin specific pad, have the rifle/pad fitted for you. Practice! Walk the woods with confidence.
    256WinMag likes this.
    New to Marlins but already got the bug. Dammit. And now I went and caught some reloading.

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  10. #18
    Certified Gunnut
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    Back up, your talking about a .357 for back up when you have a 45/70 in your hands, no offense meant or intended, but give me a break!

    Always and forever, the most effective medicine for something like a bear with a bad attitude is the rifle in your hand!

    A handgun is better then a sharp stick, but not by much and not at all when compared to your rifle.

    Then, Beartooth Bullets or Laser Cast among others can supply you good Wide Flat Nose (WFN) bullets, the best being those of 400 or more grains in weight.

    Forget the term "hard cast" unless it also comes with measured hardness figures. The term has NO established hardness measurement by which to judge that hardness, so simply forget the term as it basically means nothing. Harder then what, softer the what. The term means little to nothing.

    Take a 400+ WFN at a velocity of 1400 - 1700fps - forget light for caliber bullets and warp velocities!! - and it will take care of any situation you may find yourself in, PROVIDING your shots are well placed. A poorly placed shot from a 505 Gibbs is still a poorly placed shot.

    The Wide Flat Nose cast bullet is nothing less the AWESOME in the results department.. Loooong penetration, good wound channel and great results on game.

    As said, forget warp velocities as anything much above 1700fps with the 400+ grain WFN gives nothing but diminishing returns including decreased penetration.

    Image shown is of a before and after of a 465gr WFN with a muzzle velocity of 1650fps. Probably the only one I'll ever find and taken from a big cow elk after a quartering shot.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

    005.JPG

  11. #19
    Gunfighter
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crusty Deary Ol Coot;2395592

    Forget the term "hard cast" unless it also comes with measured hardness figures. The term has NO established hardness measurement by which to judge that hardness, so simply forget the term as it basically means nothing. Harder then what, softer the what. The term means little to nothing.

    [ATTACH=CONFIG
    175608[/ATTACH]
    Crusty,
    This is taken from Buffalo Bore's website and it will give the definition of the term "hard cast ' as they use it. Like many things it is a relative term.

    "Differences Between 'Lead' & 'Hard Cast' Bullets

    Untitled Document The Differences between 'Lead' Bullets and 'Hard Cast' Bullets

    Many gun owners refer to hard cast bullets as 'lead' bullets. In most cases, they do not understand the drastic differences or they would not use such an inaccurate generalization. This generalization is as inaccurate a generalization as referring to all motorized vehicles as Volkswagens.
    Hard cast bullets may contain some lead and be grey in color, but that is where the similarities stop. Hard cast bullets can be formulated of numerous alloy mixes (antimony, silver, tin, etc) containing some lead, but the alloys make the bullet much harder than pure lead. Pure lead has a Brinell hardness # of about 4. Most hard cast bullets will have a Brinell hardness # of 11 to 30 and as such are several times harder than lead.
    Generally speaking, a properly designed, sized and lubed hard cast bullet will not leave lead alloy deposits in a rifled barrel, but pure lead bullets will almost always foul a barrel to the point of a total loss of accuracy (with very few rounds fired) and perhaps to the point that the barrel will split or worse. ( see my essay on 'Dangerous Pure Lead Cowboy Ammunition' ) I am employing many abstractions here, as there are a number of ways to make a hard cast bullet foul your barrel and make a pure lead bullet not foul, but on the whole, what I have written in this paragraph is accurate.
    Depending on certain variables, in many instances and for many uses, hard cast bullets will not deform or 'mushroom' when they impact living mammal tissues, but lead bullets will deform or 'mushroom' at very low impact speeds. Lead bullets will deform and have much less penetration while hard cast bullets will maintain their shape and penetrate deeply however, this requires using sufficiently hard alloy mixes, matched with intended impact speeds on the intended medium.
    Hard cast bullets can be alloyed and designed for hunting large and dangerous game where deep penetration is needed - a lead bullet cannot be used this way. I shudder every time a customer refers to our beautiful hard cast hunting bullets as 'lead' bullets. It happens almost daily.
    This short essay could not cover all the variables of/and the differences between hard cast and lead bullets - it would take a large book to do that, but hopefully it sheds some light on the on the general/gross differences." Buffalo Bore

    I pulled out my Lee Hardness Testing Kit and tested 5 different bullets. This is what I found, Cast Performance LBT Style Heat Treated Solid 405 gr. WLFNGC = 22.3 BHN. Buffalo Arms CO #457125.459 = 14.3 BHN. A paper patch bullet I cast in 20 to 1 = 9.8 BHN. The bullets I cast in 30 to 1 and swaged pure lead bullets my tester doesn't have on it's spec sheet.

    I would call the bullet you picture "Hard Cast" Because it certainly did not mushroom, and I believe most bullet makers will provide their customers with the BHN and or alloy content of their bullets.

    Jake
    Officer29 and Victor N TN like this.

  12. #20
    Gun Wizard
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    Just some random thoughts.

    * hunting bear and defending against bear are two very different things.
    * a black bear and a brown bear are two very different animals.

    For hunting bear, I don't see a real need to port.
    John

    Team Old Phart #86
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    Team 30-30 #95


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