slamfire showed a great pic of what happens when you push your 45-70 too far. I have found that pushing my Marlin to the top was painfully too much to shoot too often and the accuracy wasn't that great for me. When at a moderate level the accuracy is great and when using my 405gr cast or my 465gr cast they both will do a complete pass through on an elk or a deer. That is good enough for me. I would not be afraid to put either of those loads up against any North American animal. If the need for shooting the 45-70 at max loads is for range then your using the wrong rifle. When I know I'm going to have the possibility of making long distance shots I have my 7mm mag for that.