444 vs 45-70
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18
Like Tree38Likes

Thread: 444 vs 45-70



  1. #1
    Tinhorn
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    73
    Member #
    140673
    Thanked
    95 times

    444 vs 45-70

    Good morning. I have a Marlin 45-70 1895g and have worked up some accurate loads for it. I am a little disappointed in the trajectory out at 200. I could add more powder but it's about all of the recoil I can stand.

    Will a .444 be more manageable at 200 with the similar recoil? Just from using a lighter bullet. I know this is all pretty subjective.

    I bought the 45-70 for short range elk hunting but if the need arises I would like to be able to shoot 200 without as much hold over.
    Last edited by Dawei; 10-30-2019 at 04:48 PM. Reason: 2 Typos

  2. #2
    Distinguished Master
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo.
    Posts
    6,647
    Member #
    4876
    Thanked
    17400 times
    Quote Originally Posted by Adababy View Post
    Good morning. I have a Marlin 45-70 1895g and have worked up some accurate loads for it. I am a little disappointed in the trajectory out at 200. I could add more powder but it's about all of the recoil I can stand.

    Will a .444 be more manageable at 200 with the similar recoil? Just from using a lighter bullet. I know this is all pretty subjective.

    I bought the 45-70 for short range elk hunting but if the need arises I would like to be able to shoot 200 without as much hold over.
    Send me a PM and I will try to help you out, but, I must know the load that you are using, the weight bullet you are shooting....and, velocity as well.
    Last edited by Dawei; 10-30-2019 at 04:49 PM. Reason: 2 Typos
    "Overkill.............is WAY underrated."
    https://www.marlinowners.com/forum/new-sg35-sg444-home/

  3. #3
    Gun Wizard
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    The poor, dry, and windy part of Idaho.
    Posts
    2,119
    Member #
    21610
    Thanked
    5413 times
    It depends on the bullets you're comparing. Many 'light' .444 bullets have BCs just as bad as comparable .45-70 bullets. Their trajectory won't be much, if any better.
    But, overall... Yes, .444 Marlin will be slightly better from 100 to 200(+) yards with 'lighter' bullets.

    One can argue that 'milder' recoil comes with lighter projectiles, but it's all subjective. Recoil velocity and impulse duration change with bullet weight. Lighter bullets 'hit harder' but over a shorter period of time, while heavier bullets result in 'softer' recoil over a longer period of time. Many people perceive the physical manifestations of those reactions differently, though.

    If recoil is not a substantial issue, less drop at long range will actually come with heavy bullets with better ballistic coefficients.

    For heavy bullets, .45-70 has the edge - especially in a Marlin lever gun. In a single shot, they're roughly equal. (But I favor the 444.)
    Give me your tired, your poor,
    Your rusted masses yearning to live again,
    The wretched refuse of your humid closet.
    Send me the partless, broken-stocked,
    The Marlins in need of new life...

  4. Remove Advertisements
    MarlinOwners.com
    Advertisements
     

  5. #4
    Marlin Marksman
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Sugar Land, Texas
    Posts
    1,335
    Member #
    73033
    Thanked
    3868 times
    For an elk-sized target, your MPBR should be a bit north of 200 yards - meaning you shouldn't have any elevation adjustment anywhere inside 200 yards, assuming you're not very far south of 1600 fps MV with the 45-70.
    M700, vt4ster and Texas Shooter like this.
    "If you can remember all of the guns you own, you don't have enough." -- Me

    "Only accurate rifles are interesting." -- Col. Townsend Whelen

  6. #5
    Certified Gunnut
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    4,370
    Member #
    59599
    Thanked
    7773 times
    The .444 does have the reputation of shooting a wee bit flatter than the .45/70. I don't own a Triple 4. With my .45/70 (a Classic Model 1895), I have two hunting loads, both of which crony at 1,800 fps. One is the 400-grain Speer JFP, and the other the 405-grain Cast Performance with gas check. Although I'm not an elk hunter, I would think either of these would be just as good on an elk at 200 yards as a 240-grain, or even 265-grain bullet from a .444.

    According to the Hornady Ballistics Calculator, if I zero at 150 yards, the Speer is 3.2" high at 100 yards and 8" low at 200. With the same 150-yard zero, the Cast Performance bullet is 2.9" high at 100 yards and 7" low at 200 yards. Elk have a larger kill zone than a whitetail. According to what I've read, it's 18" vertically (9" above and 9" below the center of the elk), so you'd be "good" out to 200 yards with a "dead-on" hold. Just take a range finder because if you'd shoot at 250 yards (thinking it was 200) you'd be 18" low and need to adjust your aim point. When I ran the .444 Hornady Superformance 265-grainer through the calculator (which I did at 2,300 fps instead of the 2,400 listed because they used a 24" test barrel), with the same 150-yard zero, the Superformance is 2" high at 100 yards and 5" low at 200 yards. That is a bit flatter but not substantially so; at 200 yards the difference is only 3".

    Now, don't forget that all this fine information and advice is being given by a guy whose never gone elk hunting and does not own a .444. (But, I have dropped them puny whitetailed deer out to 163 yards with the 'ol Gov't round).
    Texas Shooter and vt4ster like this.

  7. #6
    Tinhorn
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    73
    Member #
    140673
    Thanked
    95 times
    Ok thanks guys. Sounds like I need to spend some more time at the range. I probably need to raise my 100 yard group a little and practice more at 200. I really want a .444 though. Don't think my wife would be able to tell the difference. 😋
    M700 and vt4ster like this.

  8. #7
    Certified Gunnut
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Deary, Ideeeeeho
    Posts
    4,435
    Member #
    13409
    Thanked
    6693 times
    adababy,

    Buy a better scope!

    I tried the higher velocity and lighter bullet with the 45/70 and the devastation with a 355gr Wide Flat Nose at 2300fps WAS NOT TO MY LIKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    The 465grEFN at 1650fps is ever so much better!

    Then with a Leupold CDS (Custom Dial System) scope and sighted in "on" at 100yds, just a quick twist of the custom dial puts me "on" at well beyond 200yds. 275yds. according to the dial.

    I know it works at 163yds, the range for my furthest elk to date.

    A person should never expect the 45/70 to be a long range game rifle as compared to for example a 300 Win Mag., but it will get er done in fine fashion within reasonable ranges.

    By the way, trying to sight in for a dead on, center of kill zone hold simply did not work with the 45/70s rainbow like trajectory.

    Buy a better scope!

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

  9. #8
    Tinhorn
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    73
    Member #
    140673
    Thanked
    95 times
    I will look into a better scope. I am trying to keep the gun light and compact. I really like my 1-4 Leupold. I have even considered taking the darn thing off and using a peep.
    Marlin44shooter and vt4ster like this.

  10. #9
    Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Podunk Utah
    Posts
    1,429
    Member #
    3176
    Thanked
    2647 times
    1-4 Leo is perfect.....

    between the 444 & 45-70......stick with the 45-70

    I've had both....no flies on the 444......but the 45-70 rocks......

    My license plate on my Chevy truck is Utah '444-xxx'

    M700 and vt4ster like this.
    Marlin Team Old Phart #323
    Marlin Team 1894 # 480
    Marlin Team 45-70 # 1637
    Marlin Team 39 # 441
    Marlin Team 35 # 783

  11. #10
    Marlin Marksman
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Sugar Land, Texas
    Posts
    1,335
    Member #
    73033
    Thanked
    3868 times
    I'm making a few assumptions here, work with them as is fit.

    Set your zero at about 180 yards. This will get you to about 215 yards without having to adjust for holdover for an elk-sized target. You'll need to be about 6" high at 100 yards for a 180 yard zero.

    Assumptions
    altitude: 5K feet
    MV: 1600 fps
    BC: .30
    vital zone: 12"

    You'll have to trust me on this part. Glass isn't necessary. A good aperture sight like XS, Skinner, or Ranger Point Precision, and you can easily make this shot out to 200 yards. I'm 51, eyes not nearly what they were 10 years ago, and I can ring the gong at 200 yards with regularity.

    You will need to spend time at the range, but that's sort of a given.
    Travlin, vt4ster and M700 like this.
    "If you can remember all of the guns you own, you don't have enough." -- Me

    "Only accurate rifles are interesting." -- Col. Townsend Whelen


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Home | Forum | Active Topics | What's New | Subscribed Threads

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •