Black Death Challenge

[luisyamaha]

RD's match is for any center-fire lever-action rifles/carbines.   Bore size is not restricted to big bores.   Yes, the .44 magnum qualifies, thats what I shoot.  

Like Big Medicine, I mostly shoot by myself.   Will try the 25 yard BDT one of these days.  I'll have to take some stands to set the target that close, as the range set-up is for 50 meters.  I just haven't felt confident enough to try it yet.

[tubbythetuba]

It doesn't have to be a big bore, just centerfire lever........Right??

[big medicine]

Any centerfire lever will do.

[Andrew]

I can understand that the BDT is an individual thing. Bragging rights? Ok, I can go for that, also... With a dollop of tolerance added, too boot. But if a shooter really wanted to know if he or she really maxed the BDT, he'd fire one shot per bull (on the proper backing, Doc) and use a plug gage. It tells no lies. Have fun but "To thine own self, be True", eh? I've said my piece. Have a great Saturday. ~Andrew

[smoke810]

Andrew

Just one comment and the subject is dropped.  It is my opinion and it is just an my opinion, shooting the BDT challange; I think it is easier to  shoot one shot into the white on   individual targets than shooting 5 rounds into one target.  My reasoning is that it is more difficult to sight in on a ragged hole than to sight in on a well defined black dot.  I know it doesn't sound like a big deal but at least to me it seems to be easier.  Also if you do max the BDT, you will find it is much easier to repeat the process.

I am reminded when I was in the Army, the guys in my outfit had a game they played.  The guy that couldn't take a beer can and crimp it with their fingers with each hand and then mash it into a "Z" shape paid for the beer.  It took me a long time to finally do it and from then on it was a snap.  By the way the cans were made of steel.  Aluminum cans didn't exist then.  Sounds simple enough.  I have seen some really "Big strong" ape like guys that always were good for the beer.

Just my .02 cents

DG  

I can understand that the BDT is an individual thing. Bragging rights? Ok, I can go for that, also... With a dollop of tolerance added, too boot. But if a shooter really wanted to know if he or she really maxed the BDT, he'd fire one shot per bull (on the proper backing, Doc) and use a plug gage. It tells no lies. Have fun but "To thine own self, be True", eh? I've said my piece. Have a great Saturday. ~Andrew

[Doc Sharptail]

Some 30 odd years ago, the gunsmith was showing me some targets he shot with a Browning T-2, T-Bolt...

The target was the Canadian 25 yd small bore target- with a well-defined "X" in the center of the bull. All of his 5 shot groups could easily be covered with a dime. All shots landed with-in the broken line "X" ring, which is a bit smaller than a dime...

His secret? Taking out the "X" with his first shot.

I've got a ways to go yet, before I can realize that kind of repeatable consistency. ( I'm coming close though )

I can see the point of using a scoring plug in a match competition to determine a winner. The BDT however, is not a match competition, unless you are competing in a "Top Gun" event.

The idea behind the BDT Challenge is for small game shooters to put their 5 shots into less than 1/2" , into the center bull of the target. All this with a light squirrel class rifle, and no rear bag, remember...

    To my way of thinking, competing against one's own self, and in my case, against the wind, is quite enough. If I start shooting this thing with a 10 - 12 lb. target rifle, and a rear bag rest, I'll gladly accept your scoring plug.

Where it stands now is that I know I can do it, and have the proof. And that is the point of the whole idea behind the BDT Squirrel class challenge. It took me 2 years to get the BDT done, but much longer to become the kind of shooter I wanted to be 30 years ago...

Regards,

Doc Sharptail

[shum8]

Shum,
Is it used???......   You should fire it up and get a couple targets shot for RD's postal match. A 336 in 44mag is a rare bird, I'd say it is a big bore.

I'll say it's used.......It's a 336-44 magnum my Dad bought in '64, and shot it quite a bit. Several years ago, he gave it to me, and I've shot the snot out of it. Shoots VERY well - by golly I think I will.

Shum8

[UNCLE JOHN'S OUTDOORS]

One thing about the BDT and the Top Gun Challenge, it is on the honor sytem and been so for 7 years. yes you can bring out the "plug if you want to" but we don't. If it is so close that it can not be determined "tie goes to the shooter" thats pretty easy.

This may sound strange to some, but in a world of dishonesty I feel this kind of shooting will remain with honor and the leauge masters agree. It brings back a little tradition of the old days. Yes we give away some nice prizes, but after many years of the match its still on the honor system.

With the fine shooters that show up every year, who would want to cheat anyway. I know one thing when I beat that damn Jody Skinner I want it fair and square.

[big medicine]

My point with the honor system was that having to have a witness makes it near impossible for a lot shooters to do. My 5 year old is the only person that I have gone shooting with in the last couple years. Most times I'm by myself.

[UNCLE JOHN'S OUTDOORS]

many shooters have sent me their BDT for scores over the internet, you only have to max it once to hit the record book. many have done it multiple times. when done so we invite you to the top gun challenge rifle match.

right now 85 shooters world wide have maxed the BDT, thats not a lot. It is a great challenge by itself and at top gun it wipesout 80% of the shooters no matter how good they are.

Thats why top gun is so tuff. all the good shooters seriously underestimate it and then it is too late.

I have the latest White Feather record book if someone would like to post it here. now would be a good time. just e-mail me

[Doc Sharptail]

I tried, but couldn't figger how to copy a word document here. Maybe someone more tech savvy will step up...

Regards,

Doc Sharptail

[luisyamaha]

John, lets get something clear here, please, as we seem to be going round and round this issue with no clear definitive answer.  Can I send a target only signed by me, attesting to the having met all the rules to shoot it, on my honor, and have it accepted?  Or do I need positively to have a witness sign it?   As expressed by others, I mostly shoot by myself, and when there's other people around, they are usually doing their own thing and not paying any attention to me.  

It's your match and your rules.  I would not dream of asking for a change nor an exception to acommodate me.  But now I'm not so sure what the rules are.  I'd like to play, if possible.

[UNCLE JOHN'S OUTDOORS]

I have no doubt you can and have maxed the BDT. But that is not the big picture. Top Gun goes along with the pass it on, idea. Shooting alone, doesnt accompish this, even though its your idea of a good time. A witness to the feat of marksmanship such as a max BDT makes someone else want to do it. Damn if its not addictive. We knew this when we started top gun and the bdt.

Just before the war started we had a problem with soldiers that didnt care much for shooting, and a lost generation of American sharpshooters. Top Gun has had a small influence on the resurgence of the the Hawk Eye American sharpshooter. So basicaly if you can shoot we will make you better. When you get better teach someone else and pass it on.

So I ask that the next time you go shooting, go find a "rent a kid" and teach him or her how to shoot, im sure they will be glad to sign your target as a witness. Chance are you will be signing theirs....Pass it on.

[big medicine]

Luis asked:

John, lets get something clear here, please, as we seem to be going round and round this issue with no clear definitive answer

You should run for some kind of political office. I take it to mean NO!! YOU MUST HAVE SOMEONE SIGN YOUR TARGET. But yet there is no clear answer, we are still going round and round. Do you or do you not have to have someone sign your target at the range? Or as Luis asked, can you sign your own target that you have met the rules on your honor?

[luisyamaha]

I'm happy for the confidence shown in my shooting abilities(?).  But the fact is I have never maxed out the BDT, never said I did.  I might be able to do it, and I'll sure give it a try.  I have to fabricate some sort of stand to set the target at 25 yards.    It will have to remain for my own edification however, due to the restrictive gun laws in Puerto Rico.   I can not legally take anybody to the range and let him shoot any of my firearms without that person already having a valid target shooting license issued by the PRPD.  It would be a felony for both of us.  Should that person be a minor I'll additionally be charged with contributing to the delincuency of a minor and God knows what else. :roll:     We are trying to amend the law to allow some kind of "temporary permit" so people can try the shooting sports before going thru the  red tape and expense of the formal license.  We believe that would bring a lot of new people into the sport.  We've had a steady liberalizing of the gun laws here in Puerto Rico over tha last few years, but still have a ways to go.

My children have "minors licenses"  which are sub-edited to mine, and I take them shooting often.  But I won't let them near a bench, and they only shoot a reactive targets for now.   It's a bit more fun for them that way.

The whole "pass it on" idea is very good and I commend your commitment to it.  I try to pass on what little I know to others at the range when I can.