Do we really need good bullet expansion?

[clintopher]

Why don't they use soft expanding bullets in war? just a thought for ya!

The object is not to kill the enemy but to incapacitate them.  A wounded soldier ties up other soldiers where as a dead one does not.

[janott]

Why don't they use soft expanding bullets in war? just a thought for ya!

The object is not to kill the enemy but to incapacitate them.  A wounded soldier ties up other soldiers where as a dead one does not.

I know that, I threw it in for JBledsoe's thought of using them for hunting game and not needing soft expanding bullets. Our object in hunting is to humainly kill the animals, and not to wound and cripple.
Thanks for helping me point it out.

Joe

[JBledsoe]

Why don't they use soft expanding bullets in war? just a thought for ya!

The object is not to kill the enemy but to incapacitate them.  A wounded soldier ties up other soldiers where as a dead one does not.

I know that, I threw it in for JBledsoe's thought of using them for hunting game and not needing soft expanding bullets. Our object in hunting is to humainly kill the animals, and not to wound and cripple.
Thanks for helping me point it out.

Joe

You are jumping to conclusions base on facts not in evidence!  I simply ask a series of academic questions pertaining to the use of expanding bullets.  I never advocated the use of either type bullet.  Next thing I know we are going to war.  I'm out of here before the shooting starts.

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[janott]

Sorry I will put my boots on so I can't jump as high. Just trying to point out the reasons why we use soft point bullets on big game animals in the States.

I personally like bullets that expand for hunting big game, they have worked well and I do not like to fix something thats working. Thats why I got out of the military.

I have on the other hand used FMJ bullets on predators.

Joe

[JBledsoe]

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Hi Joe,

I'm not arguing for solids,  I have used expanding bullets for 50 years.  I just find it amusing that we get worked up over bullet expansion for our hunting of big game and yet dangerous game in other places are hunted with non expanding bullets.  Also, as Rowdy said, just getting a discussion started to see what shakes out.

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[janott]

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Hi Joe,

I'm not arguing for solids,  I have used expanding bullets for 50 years.  I just find it amusing that we get worked up over bullet expansion for our hunting of big game and yet dangerous game in other places are hunted with non expanding bullets.  Also, as Rowdy said, just getting a discussion started to see what shakes out.

.  

Kinda figured, but it was still fun not much shakin out here except our bodies because it's cold out!

[privateer]

Big cast bullets with a large meplat do kill well but I can't get that in my .270 so I use expanding bullets. I use plain vanilla bullets such as WWPPs, Core lokts, Speer, Sierra and hornady and occasionally Nosler Partitions for elk. I do tend to use bullets of higher  sectional density such as 150 gr .270 bullets or 160 gr in my 7mms. I guess its a matter of principal but I will not spend 2.00/bullet.  The expansion is how you dump all that kinetic energy into the animal.

[Heavy Metal Guitar Hero]

I wonder about all of this stuff too.  My best load in my muzzleloader is a cast 420 gr bullet.  I don't have the slightest idea about what it is made of, how hard or brittle it is, or how soft.  It IS deadly accurate.  I just can't believe a deer inside of a hundred yards is gonna shake that off.
maybe I should hit one with a hammer to see if it mushrooms or shatters into a million pieces

[janott]

I wonder about all of this stuff too.  My best load in my muzzleloader is a cast 420 gr bullet.  I don't have the slightest idea about what it is made of, how hard or brittle it is, or how soft.  It IS deadly accurate.  I just can't believe a deer inside of a hundred yards is gonna shake that off.
maybe I should hit one with a hammer to see if it mushrooms or shatters into a million pieces

Make a target, fill a box with wet news paper stacked and shoot it at 50 yards and see if you can find the bullet. This should give you a good idea what it would do. I would make it long enough to stop the bullet inside.

Joe

[LouisianaMan]

. . .and in any event, the discussion is not necessarily about deer "getting away & recovering." The concern many have expressed is merely about the deer getting away far enough to make tracking tedious at best, unsuccessful at worst. Everybody posting here knows any bullet through vitals will cause death--sooner or later--but for a modern-day ethical hunter, only "sooner" counts. At least "soon enough" to allow recovery of the game.

[LouisianaMan]

gcs,
I find your comments very helpful re. 150g vs. 170g .30-30 loads. Although I don't have a .30-30 anymore, your experience will cause me to change my ammo recommendation to my brother, who does have a .30-30.

Your observations make perfect sense to me. Although I hadn't thought about .30-30 ballistics in a while, it stands to reason that the 150g would expand quicker & thus kill better than 170g. It's quite the opposite of the paper ballistics of the two loads, and shows me that I was obviously mistaken to depend on ft/lb energy figures to the exclusion of other aspects of bullet performance.

Thanks for the tutorial. I continue to live & learn!

PS--any thoughts on Hornady LeverEvolution in .30-30? How about .35 Remington?

[gcs]

  Thanks for the compliment, I may not be the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but I know what works for me.
As for the LE's, they are what I use now. They are like the 150's on steroids, absolutely the best factory round I've ever used and just knocks the snot out of deer. But..... I'm using the first production lot.
Apparently, Jake has maybe discovered a change in the ammo that has me concerned.
The stuff I'm using is dead accurate, and is the hammer of Thor as far as I'm concerned, but if the new lots have deteriorated, I'll switch again back to 150CL, or those Power max's.