444 Marlin XLR versus 338 Marlin XLR Ex.

[Dawei]

Which would you choose as a deer elk/Moose rifle. I own a 444S Marlin that I purchased new and thinking of selling it because it has a 1 in 38" twist barrel and Marlin said it can't be re-barreled to the newer 1 in 20" twist barrel made to handle leverevolution bullets. I also own a 338 ME & 308 XLR and like shooting  gummy bullets.

Should I sell the 444S and buy a new 444 Mar. or 444 XLR  or just use the 444S as is?                          I really don't know which would be a better Deer Elk/Moose rifle  the 444 XLR or the 338 XLR?

I would stick w/the 444SS you already have. Using 300gr JSP or harcast it will take care of anything in North America that breathes oxygen - INCLUDING THE KODIAK/GRIZZLY BEARS! If you are a handloader you can accomplish a lot, particularly w/cast boolits. If not a handloader, then the Hornady® 265gr JSFP Light Magnum® is all you need for Deer. Elk, & Moose.

[308/338]

well just got back form the range and the 338 ME is an accurate cartridge but my rifle has a problem cycling ammo. I'll clean up the action check if any of the screws are loose then make five dummy cartridges and try again. THIS RIFLE RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX  HAD A LOOSE TUBE MAG. SCREW I'll call Marlin up come Monday and tell them about it for sure. IF this problem can't be fix before the  regular deer season than it will be the old reliable warrior the 444S it never let me down.

[mountain_man86]

I have no idea how the new 338ME will do, as I have not heard of any performance on game yet, however, the 444 is a wonderfull cartridge for deer, elk, moose, and bear..  If you scope your 444s and work up an accurate load that you practice with out to 250 yards, there is no need to be affraid of taking an elk with it at that range if you use the hornady 265gr flat point bullets or heavier.. 

If however you feel you must shoot the flex tip bullets, you can order a custom barrel to the length you wish, with the twist rate you wish, and take it to a gunsmith who knows how to have it rebarreled..  Just ask for the original barrle back so you have the important one on hand if you ever choose to sell it..  THis way you do not have to fight with the cross button safety models..   

[Tony65x55]

308/338,  Dawei pegged it for you.  The .444 will capably handle any real world hunting situation you're going to find yourself in.  I own both Ballard barrels and MG barrels and either will capably handle 300+ grains of bullet.  When I tried out the flex tip bullets in the MG, I wasn't impressed as they didn't shoot as well as my cast boolits but it never occurred to me that there was a twist problem, I just wasn't thrilled with three inch 100 yd. groups at $2 per bang.  Since reading these threads I find others have had very bad accuracy but was simply inferior to cast, certainly nothing gawd awful.  If I was stuck with factory loads the Hornady is a good one but as you are a handloader, the 300 Speer PSP is a dandy.  It's accurate and hammers moose and deer... then again, you could start casting   

[308/338]

Tony65x55
I do cast 45/357 cal. for pistols for a cheap day at the range and muzzleloader. I'm siting on 50 lb. of Linotype and all the lead I can walk home with from the pistol range I belong too. Made my own sabots too. But I think when it come to rifle bullets; I will stick to those factory cooper jacketed bullets. I just don't shoot enough rifle bullets and their cheap enough.

I have a life time supply of 265 gr. FP. Hdy. The thing about the slow twist vs the faster came to my attention reading hand-loader books and calling Speer and Marlin and speaking to their technicians. From their testing I learn that some slow twist rifling (1 in 38") don't stabilize heavy bullets. It is not to say your rifle with a 1 in 38" twist can't.

Another thing; the 265 gr. FP. work well with the slower twist; but the 265 gr. FXT. (gummy) bullet is not recommended . The 265 gr. FXT. will do okay with the slower twist; in some rifles but; the 265 gr. FP is in the bulls-eye with the slower twist.

Now I got it! But there are some people for some reason block this info. out; because their rifle with the slower twist can handle heaver bullets well. So does mine! 

[308/338]

PS No need for bigger bullets the 265 FP Hdy. is it. It was the only rifle bullet designed for the .44 cal. rifle and now the 265 gr. FXT.
Nothing bigger than black Bear in NYS to hunt but; there is how moose sightings in the north part. I would like to see one in my state before I die. For now I can just post and maybe this majestic creature will pass by.

[FourFortyFourFred]

I am with 308/338 265 FP hordany always has done and will do.

the 338 is going to expand but the .430 ain't going to get smaller.

[Reicher]

I would like to see one in my state before I die. For now I can just post and maybe this majestic creature will pass by.

I have seen very fresh moose tracks while visiting the Empire State a few years back.  It was in the Adirondacks, near Speculator.  Supposedly there were sightings the same week I was there.  There is hope yet for your wish to come true.

-Mark

[mancuso]

I saw a moose in Limekiln during the early ML season back in 05.  It looked like a small 1 1/2 year old bull.  It was a neat encounter however.

Vince.

[308/338]

I would like to see one in my state before I die. For now I can just post and maybe this majestic creature will pass by.

I have seen very fresh moose tracks while visiting the Empire State a few years back.  It was in the Adirondacks, near Speculator.  Supposedly there were sightings the same week I was there.  There is hope yet for your wish to come true.

-Mark

Hey Speculator is about 50 miles or less from Richmondville NY I think where I'm hunting this season.Thanks for the heads up.

[308/338]

I saw a moose in Limekiln during the early ML season back in 05.  It looked like a small 1 1/2 year old bull.  It was a neat encounter however.

Vince.

I will have to look up Limekiln. Two years ago I was in the town of Indian Lake. In the evening the deer walk a round the town but I didn't see a buck. The doe would look right in your eye if you stop the car to look at them as if they was telling you the way to go home.

[Reicher]

I would like to see one in my state before I die. For now I can just post and maybe this majestic creature will pass by.

I have seen very fresh moose tracks while visiting the Empire State a few years back.  It was in the Adirondacks, near Speculator.  Supposedly there were sightings the same week I was there.  There is hope yet for your wish to come true.

-Mark

Hey Speculator is about 50 miles or less from Richmondville NY I think where I'm hunting this season.Thanks for the heads up.

There is a chunk of International Paper land in the Speculator area.  My uncle is in one of of 5 or 6 groups that have hunting leases on the property.  That is were I saw the tracks, they had very sharp defined edges and there was a light steady rain all afternoon so I would say they were quite fresh.

Oh yea back to the original post.  Though I do not own a 444, yet, I have to agree with Dawei that it is a very exceptional North American big game cartridge.  I do not see the need for the 338 unless you just really want to get one.  In that case go for it.

-Mark

[Tonk]

308/338......I would suggest that you take a hard look at the ballistics table at Beartooth Bullets ok. Their hardcast bullets will let you hunt anything that walks on the face of Alaska and the lower 48 states. Everytime you trade, you loose money.

I have both the old style .444 and the newer model Marlin .444 rifle, I just load them accordingly, no sweat really. Now either of them would be good to GO for elk or moose, as long as you not going to be shooting passed 150 yards........Ok some may want to push that out to 200 yards but I hunt the dark timber and would likely never get a 200 yard shot in the first place. I do well to get a 100 yard shot really in the timber.
I do love that big hole the .444 caliber makes in a critter!!!

[308/338]

308/338......I would suggest that you take a hard look at the ballistics table at Beartooth Bullets ok. Their hardcast bullets will let you hunt anything that walks on the face of Alaska and the lower 48 states. Everytime you trade, you loose money.

I have both the old style .444 and the newer model Marlin .444 rifle, I just load them accordingly, no sweat really. Now either of them would be good to GO for elk or moose, as long as you not going to be shooting passed 150 yards........Ok some may want to push that out to 200 yards but I hunt the dark timber and would likely never get a 200 yard shot in the first place. I do well to get a 100 yard shot really in the timber.
I do love that big hole the .444 caliber makes in a critter!!!

Why! do you suggest that I look at Beartooth Bullets Ballistics. I have no need to hunt every thing in north America or Alaska or any of the other lower  47 states. I live in NEW YORK STATE only back bear and deer is your biggist  game creature and I hear Big foot is well known in this parts.

When you trade and you get what you want you don't loose if it is what you want.

I have a 1972 444S and I load it accordingly and practical for my use .

I agree 150 yds. is practical in deep wood areas. but this cartridge is capable for deer size game out to 275 yds.  with the Hdy. 265 gr. FP bullet in the hands of a hunter who knows the 444. Here is the ballistics, MV. 2325/3180     100 yds. 1907/2140     200 yds. 1542/1400     300 yds. 1251/921
Muzzle     100 yd     200 yd     300 yd     
-1.50    0.00           -8.20           -31.30
You only need 1000 ft.lb to ethically kill a deer  and you can see at 300 yds. there is 921 ft. lb.

With the new leverevolution 444  the trajectory is falter and is capable beyond 300 yds. Here ie the ballistics. 2325/3180     1971/2285     1652/1606     1380/1120
            M. -1.7             100 yds 3.0      200 yds-1.4       300 yds -18.6
If I should come across 444 Guide carbine I might be interested.

[308/338]

Reicher   You wrote.
"Oh yea back to the original post.  Though I do not own a 444, yet, I have to agree with Dawei that it is a very exceptional North American big game cartridge.  I do not see the need for the 338 unless you just really want to get one.  In that case go for it."

As I wrote in pass poster; I bought my 444S NIB in 1972. Since then I purchased a few other. I like to change around; it keeps it interesting on the off season and it give me a opportunity to venture in to different calibers. It widens my interests in reloading with different powders and bullet weights. For an example I own a  Browning 1895 Winchester copy in 30 06 it has a fixed box mag. I can load with 100 grain bullets at starting powder charge for targets and varmint hunting and I can duplicate the 30 30 performance using 150 grain bullet, H4895, ch. 42.0, vel. 2427 the recoil is similar to the 30 30. this is a good target/deer load. Another example my BLR 358 can be loaded with pistol bullets for targets/varmints can duplicate the 35 Rem. for deer and can be loaded for elk/moose hunting.

Why I buy the 338ME! because I could! ( Please forgive me for that statement)and I believe I got a bargain it too. The accuracy is not to be ignored the recoil can be tolerated (similar to the 336C 35 Rem)

I think marlin made a mistake with the 338 ME they should have redesign the 358 win. case not the 356 win. case. the 356 win. has a thicker wad base that limits powder capacity . The reason is to compensate for the weak Win. 94 action. The 358 win. doesn't have this thick wad and a greater powder capacity.
I believe Marlin's actions are strong enough to handle this round or can be made too.

There are already 225 gr. SPBT on the market (Game king) all that has to be done is to put a gummy tip on it.