Wildcat .35-.375 Caliber.JPGHey folks, any thoughts? Here is the blueprints that a have drawn up (for my idea of a wildcat cartridge). Forgive my art work as it is not the best. This image was drawn up using paint off of Windows 7, but it gives a general idea of the image (showing the cartridge measurements in detail).The Cartridge is a .375 Winchester necked down to a .35 caliber with a bore diameter of .358 of a inch. It has long been pondererd as to why Winchester never attempted to neck the .30-30 Win. case up to a .35 caliber. Well i can think of a number of reasons as to why this was never attempted. For one Winchester already had the .35 Winchester (Introduced 1903), and would later introduce two other .35 calibers which would include what would become the rare .356 Winchester and of course the .358 Winchester. Though above all else necking the .30-30 Win. case up to a .35 Caliber would have not provided enough in terms of ballistics to compete with the already thriving success of the ancient .35 Remington.
However in this wildcat cartridge, that very idea could infact be used (even though it's not the initial idea) by necking the .30-30 Win. case up to .375 in diameter (like you would do if you were going to load them for use in the odd .375 Winchester at .38-55 Win. pressures), then necking it back down to the .358 in diameter (where you would yet need to keep the pressure to nearing that of the .38-55 Win.). This would be ballistically weak compared to the .35 Remington though, that's why i have taken the following approach:
In 1978 Winchester made there first attempt in 80 years to beef up there famous Model 94 line with the introduction of Model 94 XTR Big Bore in a new Cartridge called the .375 Winchester (that would later introduce the angle eject). The .375 Winchester was a .30-30 Win. case straightened or should i say necked up to .375 in bore diameter, with the head and walls thickened to withstand a max of 52,000 CUP (Copper Units of Pressure). Two more NEW hot-rod Lever Action cartridge's would later be introduced to this line as well, and they were the .307 Win. and the .356 Win. cartridge's. However this technology all had came out bout 80 years to late (and would NOT last very long) in what had become e Bolt Action world. Thus the .375 Winchester would only last 9 years on the market (despite all it had offered), was dropped in 1987.
Once the .375 Winchester case is necked down to this wildcat .358 diameter cartridge i would estimate it to be able to work around 48,000 CUP due to my research (in a standard Marlin Model 336). Which would be an increase of 13,000 CUP over the old rimless .35 Remington cartridge (which works at 35,000 CUP). Therefor allowing this wildcat cartridge to use more hot faster burning powders even though it would lack the overall useful powder capacity, and art to be able to remain ballistically comparable (even if it don't have a somewhat slight edge) over the .35 Rem. as i figure it will.
However i should note that my intentions here are not for anything superior in terms of ballistics, but more so for the pleasure (of someday hunting with something that no one else has) my own idea. Now i am certain that there are others who have made or at least attempted to make this said wildcat cartridge, but even so the numbers would be few (and the effort would pay for itself).
In short: The gun that i want to have customized (in order to shoot my new cartridge). I want to start with a basic Marlin Model 336 design chambered in .30-30 Win. (sense it will work off of the same standard action without modification). Than i will simply need to have the barrel drilled out to .358 in diameter to match that of the .35 Remington. I cant just start out using a Model 336 chambered in .35 Remington either (due to the difference within the action), as this would be a rimmed cartridge instead of a rimless cartridge like the .35 Remington. Than i will need to make a slight modification within the chambering (nearing the case neck) to match the new cartridge. Once the barrel has been re-bored, and the neck space finished i would than focus on further customization.
Is the case capacity of the .375 Win much greater than the 35 Rem? If not, you may just be better off loading your .35 Remington 336 Marlin to it's full potential. I've been loading my 336C and 336SC (both 20" barrels) with the now discontinued Alliant Reloder 12 powder and velocities with a 200gr HDY/REM RN are right at 2300fps with superb accuracy. This load makes for one heck of a deer thumper and larger game would not be out of the equation either. Alliant Reloder 12 has been my go to powder in the .35 Remington, .300 Savage and 30-30 reloads. Luckily I bought 19 pounds of Reloader 12 (all Lot # 012) when Alliant announced they were discontinuing it back in December 1998. It is also an excellent powder in my three .358 Winchesters I have. Lately I've been loading Ramshot TAC in the .358's and can push a 200gr HDY pointed bullet in excess of 2670fps and the big 250gr HDY RN in excess of 2400fps with no pressure issues at all. The velocities achieved in the .358's using TAC, actually exceeds the factory 200gr (2638fps) and 250gr (2378fps) velocities of my .35 Whelens. Just two cents worth from an old .35 caliber fan!!!!
Last edited by 358 Win; 07-27-2013 at 07:15 AM. Reason: content
Thump em with a .35 caliber and they stay
thumped. Team 35 member #17. Team 30-30 member # 98. Team .32 Special #5. NRA Life Member. USN 7/10/69 - 12/6/73. Operation Homecoming Staff, Clark Air Base, Philippines.
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The .30-30 case necked up to 35 has already been done. It is available in two versions, 35/30-30 and the improved. It is a worthwhile project if you are not looking for blistering speeds. It supports the heavy cast bullets full length and shoots them at respectable velocities. For max performance you are better off going with the .356win.
Here's what it looks like loaded with a 245gr bullet.
No, it is not... In fact the powder capacity would be a little less, but the case would be thicker so it could with stand faster/hotter burning powders. However you have missed my entire point, i am not trying to create something with any advantage's over the .35 Remington (only something similiar, but yet different). Just for the privilege of hunting with something that i designed myself, something that knowone else has. The .35 Remington is my favorite cartridge, and i have done a ton of research on it. Though i want to develop something myself, just for the pleasure of doing so: If that makes sense? My Load for the .35 Remington is a Speer 220 Gr. Bullet setting atop 42 Grs. of Hodgdon's LeveRevolution Powder which comes out of my Model 336's 20 inch Micro-Groove Barrel @ 2150+ fps. I have found that Hodgdon's LeveRevolution is the Powder for both the old .35 Rem, and .30-30 Win.
The 35 Rem case will stand the pressures you are going to run in the 336 platform just fine, no need for the 375 brass. Like City Slicker stated, if ya want more than the 35 Rem can give ya, go with the 356. DP
TEAM 444 #187, Team 35 #7, Two Marlin 1894Cs, Remlin 1894C, 1894-44mag, 1952 Marlin 30-30, 1966 Texan 30-30. Glenfield 36G & two 30A's 30-30, 30-30 XLR, , five- 35rem. 1951 SC, 1952 SC, 1957, 1975 and 2008, 38-55 CB, M-375, 308 MX, 338MXLR, 444P, 444SS, , XS-7 22-250, XS-7 7mm-08 AI,
Again the entire point has been missed, folks please read the original post. Understand, that i don't want to use something that is already out there (that defeats the entire purpose). I want to use something of my own creation, that is similar to the .35 Remington in performance. Not trying to out perform it, or any other cartridge. I want to be able to hunt with something THAT I PERSONALLY DESIGNED/BUILT. I know that the 336 frame will serve my platform just fine, and i know the .30-30 Win. has already been necked up to the .35 (as again i stated could be done with this cartridge in the original post) even though it's not the concept of the idea. The .30-30 Win. brass cannot withstand the pressure necked up, as the thick .375 Win. case necked down could. I am also all to familiar with the .356 Win. but finding one in a 336 based frame is not exactly easily (seeing as how Marlin only produced 2,441 of them between 1983-1986). Not to mention again, (as much as i would love to have a .356 Win. for other uses) it would defeat the purpose of me hunting with something i designed!
I respect your desire to own and shoot an original. I would not want to talk anybody out of a fun project. Lord knows we need more guys like you stimulating the economy. I am just informing you of your other options.
One more thing I would like to point out. Brass itself does not determine the pressures your new baby will be capable of producing. The first thing to keep in mind is brass is just an envelope holding your components. The firearm itself, determines your pressure limits. The 45-70 is the perfect example. Almost all reloading manuals now offer three levels of data for this great cartridge. The pressure levels increase with the type of firearm being used, not the brass. So, if your new project is using current production brass, you should not exceed approx. 43-44K CUP whether it's .375 or .30-30 brass. The brass is not your limit. The receiver has the final say. You can certainly verify this with some of the ex-Marlin employees on this forum.
I wish you luck with your project. I know I enjoyed the whole process putting together my .35/30-30.
Last edited by City Slicker; 07-28-2013 at 02:43 PM. Reason: spelling
Regardless of which brass you use, it's still essentially a 35-30. I have blown out 30-30 brass to .375 Win configuration, there isn't that much difference. City Slicker's comments are dead on, the brass is NOT the limiting factor. If you're not trying to make a hotter/faster/better round, the brass shouldn't make much difference. As far as making your own wildcat, it is nearly impossible to think of something that hasn't been done a hundred times a hundred ways already. I understand the desire to "create" a new round, but ballistically, it's about 100 years too late.
I still want to neck the .357 Maximum down and make a hot rimmed 22 Centerfire..........but it wouldn't do a darned thing that ten other rounds can't already do, as well or better. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be a hoot to make and shoot!
Enjoy your journey.
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35 safari grade is all i will say. Flat tops done more than his homework! J BOBWAY!!!!!