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Thread: The NEW .17 Winchester Super Mag is here!!!!



  1. #41
    Gun Wizard
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck89 View Post
    I totally agree, the prices are slated to be $15 for the Super-X 20gr HPs, $17 for the 20gr V-max, and $18 for the 25gr V-max. The .17 HMR will die with those prices.

    If they neck it up to .22 there is no way they will get 2500fps with a 50gr bullet, they are only getting 2600fps with a 25gr bullet. Now maybe Hornady could do something with its Superformance powder and neck it up to .22 and put a 40gr bullet in it at 2500fps but I don't see a 50gr bullet going at 2500fps out of this case ever.

    I'm happy with the .17 WSM right now, can't wait to get one in my hands this summer/fall!! Watch out coyotes!!
    Well I think they get 2600 fps with the 25 grainer because they use about the same amount of powder as for the 20 grainer....I could be wrong but I think there is room for more powder in this case than their using, so a 40-50 grainer at least going 2500 fps isn't impossible.....just look at the 22 magnum....40 grain 2000 fps...this case is WAY bigger,.....so they should be able to push a 40-50 grainer 2500 fps i think...ofc the price will go up because of more powder use but it could be worth it depending on the power you get from it.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by buck89 View Post
    I totally agree, the prices are slated to be $15 for the Super-X 20gr HPs, $17 for the 20gr V-max, and $18 for the 25gr V-max. The .17 HMR will die with those prices.

    If they neck it up to .22 there is no way they will get 2500fps with a 50gr bullet, they are only getting 2600fps with a 25gr bullet. Now maybe Hornady could do something with its Superformance powder and neck it up to .22 and put a 40gr bullet in it at 2500fps but I don't see a 50gr bullet going at 2500fps out of this case ever.

    I'm happy with the .17 WSM right now, can't wait to get one in my hands this summer/fall!! Watch out coyotes!!
    You might be right, but remember, that the velocity of the bullet is going to go up even though it's a heavier bullet, due to the larger base dia. The 25gr load most likely has less powder, cause pressure is the main limiting factor for rimfire cases, and given the same pressure, a larger dia bullet, of the same weight will be faster. It's based on the lbs pressure pushing against the square of the bullet dia. Hydraulics works the same. A larger diameter cylinder, being pushed by the same pressure will produce more piston pressure than a smaller one, ie will lift more.

    As an example, you can take a Barnes 308 cal 130gr bullet, and pushed to the same pressures, get higher velocities as a 130gr .277 dia (270 Win), or around 3100+ fps, with less powder. Or to compare apples to apples, a 308 pushing a 110gr TSX will get higher speeds than a 243 will get pushing a 105gr bullet, at the same pressure.
    While all the oil may be in Texas, ALL the dipstics are in "DC, and Sacramento"

  3. #43
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    Also, I have taken my 375 Win, which is the same case as a 38-55, actually slightly shorter, (a straight 30-30 if that helps) and pushed a 250gr bullet, safely, to 2250 fps from 20" barreled leveraction (Win 94 BB). While the 30-06 just gets 2200-2400 from a 220gr bullet. From the few loads of 250's I have read about in the '06 they are usually in the range of 2200-2300fps. The case being a straight walled case, plus longer (than the WMR), allows for considerably more powder, than the 17, plus the larger bullet base allows the pressure to build slower, thus less spike and more velocity, safer.

    I venture had the 130gr Barnes TSX been around at the time, that Col. Townsend would not have seen any perceived advantage of the 270 as far as trajectory, since the '06 will outpace the 270 when both are pushed to the same pressure levels.

    It would be interesting to see professional samples of our suggestions, and what they can actually produce. I suspect a 25cal might be the ideal compromise here, because of available 25 cal pistol bullets, both lead and jacketed.

    Also reading this article, http://www.petersenshunting.com/2013...-super-magnum/, I see the 27 cal case can also handle higher pressures than the 17 HMR or WMR cases.
    Last edited by handirifle; 01-15-2013 at 12:23 AM.
    While all the oil may be in Texas, ALL the dipstics are in "DC, and Sacramento"

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by handirifle View Post
    Also, I have taken my 375 Win, which is the same case as a 38-55, actually slightly shorter, (a straight 30-30 if that helps) and pushed a 250gr bullet, safely, to 2250 fps from 20" barreled leveraction (Win 94 BB). While the 30-06 just gets 2200-2400 from a 220gr bullet. From the few loads of 250's I have read about in the '06 they are usually in the range of 2200-2300fps. The case being a straight walled case, plus longer (than the WMR), allows for considerably more powder, than the 17, plus the larger bullet base allows the pressure to build slower, thus less spike and more velocity, safer.

    I venture had the 130gr Barnes TSX been around at the time, that Col. Townsend would not have seen any perceived advantage of the 270 as far as trajectory, since the '06 will outpace the 270 when both are pushed to the same pressure levels.

    It would be interesting to see professional samples of our suggestions, and what they can actually produce. I suspect a 25cal might be the ideal compromise here, because of available 25 cal pistol bullets, both lead and jacketed.

    Also reading this article, Introducing the New .17 Winchester Super Magnum - Petersen's Hunting, I see the 27 cal case can also handle higher pressures than the 17 HMR or WMR cases.
    Yes that's what I read too that the .27 cal case was thicker and could handle higher pressures, that's why they should be able to get a bigger bullet go pretty fast with that case IMO, it's simply a matter of cost I believe, maybe they have to use too much powder and it gets too expensive. A rimfire has to be cost effective and cheap or it will fail no matter how great, so it's a balance they have to walk.
    Necked down .22 WSM makes total sense though, but it would be funner with a .25 caliber rimfire IMO. .25 caliber rimfire with some power.....where do i sign up? It should be an obvious huge hit with the shooting public...at least I think it would be...my guess is that they wouldn't be so "crazy and imaginative" as to make a .25 caliber rimfire but instead will take the safe route of just making a .22 caliber rimfire more powerful than 22 magnum.
    Then they would have the best .17 and the best .22 rimfire on the market.

  5. #45
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    I don't see this replacing the 17 Hornet. I can reload 50 rounds of 17 Hornet for cheaper, or close to, the price of 17HMR. Just another proprietary cartridge that will go the way of the dodo.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by rookie7 View Post
    Ditto on the cz 452. This is a good opportunity for Winchester to build a model 70 with a micro-action to fit this cartridge. I would buy one.
    Remlin should jump on this and chamber the 39A in this new cartridge. It would be a hot seller. I know I would have one.
    FireManDan likes this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 186 tmanbuckhunter View Post
    I don't see this replacing the 17 Hornet. I can reload 50 rounds of 17 Hornet for cheaper, or close to, the price of 17HMR. Just another proprietary cartridge that will go the way of the dodo.
    That's what the nay sayers said about the 17 HMR too but I don't see it going away unless it does now with the new magnum offering. The 17 is a great fun caliber and it is rim fire which may keep it under the radar for anti gun advocates.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 186 tmanbuckhunter View Post
    I don't see this replacing the 17 Hornet. I can reload 50 rounds of 17 Hornet for cheaper, or close to, the price of 17HMR. Just another proprietary cartridge that will go the way of the dodo.
    Maybe, but IF they necked it up to the 22 cal, it might do a serious hurt on the WMR. I love the WMR, but this would be like comparing the 22LR to the 17 HM2.

    Necking it to 224 wouldn't require enough of a powder increase to make it unmarketable, by a long shot. I do not see this round even touching the 17 Hornet, it's 800fps slower, and as was mentioned, the Hornet is reloadable, a HUGE plus in my book. I have powders to experiment with 223 cases to equal the WMR performance, for noise issues, but in a reloadable case to keep the costs under control.
    While all the oil may be in Texas, ALL the dipstics are in "DC, and Sacramento"

  9. #49
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    The 25gr bullet has 8.5grs of powder and the 20gr has 9.5grs of powder, so it has to do with keeping pressures at 33,000psi with this new thicker walled case(50% thicker than the .17 HMR and .22 WMR cases) cause I thought they would be able to get the 25gr to at least 2800fps instead of 2600, so pressures are the key here. I will get a .17 WSM asap and then if they do neck it up to .22 WSM then I might trade in for that.

    Here is some figures for a ".22 WSM" and comparing them to the .17 WSM taking into account that they gained 600fps over the the same bullet weight in the .17 HMR. I will use the same 600fps gain over the same bullet weights in the .22 WMR:
    All zeroed to rise no higher than 2.5"

    .17 WSM 20gr V-max BC .187 210yd zero MPBR 245yds
    Muzzle 50yds 100yds 150yds 200yds 250yds 300yds
    3000fps 2739 2493 2262 2046 1846 1661
    400ft-lbs 333 276 227 186 151 123
    -1.5" 0.96 2.29 2.25 0.56 -3.12 -9.34

    .17 WSM 25gr V-max BC .230 195yds zero MPBR 225yds
    Muzzle 50yds 100yds 150yds 200yds 250yds 300yds
    2600fps 2405 2221 2046 1882 1728 1586
    375ft-lbs 321 274 232 197 166 140
    -1.5" 1.26 2.55 2.09 -0.34 -5.15 -12.80

    ".22 WSM" 35gr NTX BC .177 185yd zero MPBR 215yds
    Muzzle 50yds 100yds 150yds 200yds 250yds 300yds
    2650fps 2395 2158 1939 1735 1552 1388
    546ft-lbs 446 362 292 224 187 150
    -1.5" 1.18 2.37 1.76 -1.13 -6.82 -16.10

    ".22 WSM" 40gr V-max BC .200 180yd zero MPBR 210yds
    Muzzle 50yds 100yds 150yds 200yds 250yds 300yds
    2500fps 2283 2079 1889 1712 1551 1405
    555ft-lbs 463 384 317 260 214 175
    -1.5" 1.28 2.41 1.59 -1.59 -7.67 -17.31

    ".22 WSM" 50gr V-max BC .242 170yd zero MPBR 195yds
    Muzzle 50yds 100yds 150yds 200yds 250yds 300yds
    2200fps 2035 1879 1732 1597 1471 1356
    537ft-lbs 460 392 333 283 240 204
    -1.5" 1.61 2.64 1.27 -2.85 -10.41 -21.78


    I think the 35 and 40gr would be viable options out to 300yds but the 50gr only out to 250 due to the dramatic bullet drop.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhendrix View Post
    That's what the nay sayers said about the 17 HMR too but I don't see it going away unless it does now with the new magnum offering. The 17 is a great fun caliber and it is rim fire which may keep it under the radar for anti gun advocates.
    The 17HMR fills a niche that the centerfire 17's can't.... this 17win is just trying to re-invent the wheel.
    Quote Originally Posted by handirifle View Post
    Maybe, but IF they necked it up to the 22 cal, it might do a serious hurt on the WMR. I love the WMR, but this would be like comparing the 22LR to the 17 HM2.

    Necking it to 224 wouldn't require enough of a powder increase to make it unmarketable, by a long shot. I do not see this round even touching the 17 Hornet, it's 800fps slower, and as was mentioned, the Hornet is reloadable, a HUGE plus in my book. I have powders to experiment with 223 cases to equal the WMR performance, for noise issues, but in a reloadable case to keep the costs under control.
    This I completely agree with; chambering it in a .224 caliber would have been a much better idea, but the 22 magnum is a hard caliber to replace too... you can put it in leverguns.


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