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  1. #1
    Tenderfoot
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    BC Canada
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    1741

    45-70 405gr hard cast load data

    Hey fellas,

    I'm assembling a bunch of components for the first handloads for my new 1895 Guide gun. This gun has yet to have a round through it from me.

    Since I don't own [yet ] any loading books, I was wondering if some one will offer up a starting powder measurement matched to my components.

    The components are as follows:

    405gr .458 hard cast, plain base, flat nose bullets.
    Starline cases
    Winchester Lg. rifle primers
    H322 powder
    Lee Alox liquid lube

    I'd like to mail these at around 1500fps, below the shotgunning velocity.
    Thanks.

    Coincidentially, I miked the bore of my rifle @ .4564 groove to groove with the 50 cal lead ball I tapped down. I couldn't detect any tight spots in the bore, when tapping the ball past the printing through the barrel.

  2. #2
    Tenderfoot
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    The Great Interior of Alaska
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    698

    45-70 405gr hard cast load data

    You are a newbie, not a bad thing,we all started there, but, DO NOT take anyone's word on loads. Get a manual. get two manuals. Lyman's Cast bullet manual is a good place to start. I have reloaded probably 30,000 rounds of 44 mag,most of it with Hodgdon H110 and I never start without checking the book.
    If you can't afford one, wait until you can. Kabooms are at the least, expensive, at the worst fatal.
    This is a very safe and rewarding hobby, IF IT IS DONE RIGHT!! Each gun is different, and a load that is safe in my Marlin, may not be safe in yours. Everything you will find in the books is PROBABLY safe in all modern firearms originally chambered for that cartridge. They will usually give you a minimum and a maximum charge. With any new load, start well below the max.

    Read all the information in the front of the manual. It tells you how to go about the reloading process,and all the required equipment.


    One thing that may not be covered in the books: Any time the shot sounds"funny", anything out of the ordinary, STOP!!unload the firearm and check the bore for obstructions. A bullet lodged halfway down the bore has probably blown up more firearms than any other thing.

    Now that I have scared the h&*l out of you , welcome to the world of reloading. Start right, stay safe, and happy shooting.
    I am not trying to scare you off, just don't want to read about you in the papers.
    t ain't what you shoot, it's what you hit...

  3. #3
    Tenderfoot
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
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    45-70 405gr hard cast load data

    Good morning. I did not mean to sound like a know-it-all in my previous post, but only to warn you about using information gleaned from the internet. I frequent several forums and have received much good information. I have also received some erroneous information.

    For example, I was trying out a new bullet for which there was no published data. I was given a max load of 52 grains of a particular powder. I could not get the bullet to seat with that much powder in that case. I arbitrarily reduced the load to 46 gr and proceeded. Recoil was --INTENSE!!! After checking further, it turns out the man meant to say 42 grains. A misstroke on the keyboard had almost resulted in disaster.
    Another board I frequent, 1911 foruums, closed their reloading forum because someone kept repeatedly posting catastrophic overloads. Luckily they were caught by more knowledgable reloaders before they killed anyone.

    That is why I say to be very cautious about data given over the internet. Always check with another source. Heck, even reloading manuals have been known to be wrong, a good reason to check with more than one before trying a new load.

    Reloading is a fun and rewarding pastime, if it is done right. Done wrong , it can kill or maim you, or those around you.
    t ain't what you shoot, it's what you hit...

  4. #4
    Banned
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    Location
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    45-70 405gr hard cast load data

    Not disregarding snowtigger's concern, with those components a reasonable starting load would be 35 grains. This should be close to 1500 fps and under 28,000 CUP. You are talking about operating at well below the safe limits of the Marlin 1895 as 55 grains is a published maximum with a 400 grain jacketed bullet. A 405 grain cast plain base is shorter, softer and has less bearing surface.

  5. #5
    Tenderfoot
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    The Great Interior of Alaska
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    698

    45-70 405gr hard cast load data

    Not trying to step on any toes. Spokerider indicated he was new to reloading, as he stated he didn't own any manuals. I was just warning him to be wary of any loads he might glean from the internet, or any other source. Shtuff happens.
    BTW, I agree with your load reccomendation. It is a good place to start.
    t ain't what you shoot, it's what you hit...

  6. #6
    Tenderfoot
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    BC Canada
    Posts
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    Member #
    1741

    45-70 405gr hard cast load data

    Snowtiger,
    I thank you for your concern. I do intend to purchase a loading manual, but for the interm, I was hoping that someone could research an appropriate starting load in thier manual for me. I realize that a single error in this hobby may well be my last, and therefore, exercise caution when reloading. I am new at loading for the 45-70, however, I reload for other rifle and pistol calibers also, mostly relying on powder and bullet manufactures data for starting loads.

    Jackfish, thanks for the suggestion. 35 grains seems like a sensible, safe start.
    Eventually, I'd like to choose a GC 500+gr bullet and adjust the loads of this and the 405 hard cast load to achieve a "double zero".

  7. #7
    Tenderfoot
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    The Great Interior of Alaska
    Posts
    24
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    698

    45-70 405gr hard cast load data

    Spokerider, Sorry for the misunderstanding. Marshal Stanton over at Beartooth Bullets has a 525 grain "Pile Driver " bullet designed for the 45/70.
    If you place an order by phone, he will send load data for it.
    He also has a 425 gr of the same design. He is not in the best of health, so sometimess you have to wait on them, but, they are definitely worth the wait.
    I haven'tshot anything with the 425's but the "Pile Drivers" are aptly named.
    t ain't what you shoot, it's what you hit...

  8. #8
    Tinhorn
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    28
    Member #
    998

    45-70 405gr hard cast load data

    If you go and check the manufacturer's (bullet and powder) site, you very likely will find something for your combination.

    You can find decent data at
    http://www.hodgdon.com/data/rifle/4570gov.php
    ebay is also a pretty good source for inexpensive reloading manuals.

    In case they list different components (e.g. different primer) than what you have, you may want to consider getting the exact same components as they listed to start with.

    Mixing primer, bullet types, cases etc. is something you still can do once you feel more comfortable with the process and when you have a better "feeling" for different components.

    A chronograph could help you finding out how propoer your process is and the measured velocities will help finding the right load (less spread in velocity) for the combination you are testing. The maximum loads typically give you a great kick but good accuracy can typically be found well below that.

    No idea if this will really help but that is how I started about three years ago and it worked fine. Just never forget that it is your life and your eyes dealing with the cartridges that you put together...

    Tom


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