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Reloading the 257 roberts

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#1 ·
Anyone have any experience reloading the "Bob". I bought a nice Kimber this summer and haven't fired it yet. I will be using it for whitetails and just for fun. Has anyone use Varget for the caliber? Thanks for any advice.
 
#2 ·
Kimber makes a sweet rifle. I really like mine in .223 Rem.I have two rifles chambered to the .257 Bob. A Ruger #1B that has so far only had Norma 100 gr. loads through it and a Winchester M70 Featherweight that is so far a decent shooter but needs more load work. So far I've only run 100 g. Sierra Pro-Hunters and the the 100 gr. Barnes TSX through it Groups run in the 1.25" range so far with 44.5 gr. of IMR-4350. I use that load for both bullets. CAUTION: max load. Start at least 2.0 full gr. below that level and work up.
On that .257 Bob Norma ammo, it's been discontinued for a long time now. When I bought the Ruger #1B, 5 boxes of that ammo came with the gun. It was good stuff and an accurate load but it's no more.
I haven't shot any game with the rifles yet. I'd planned on trying it out on deer this year but I didn't draw a tag.
Paul B.
 
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#3 ·
Loaded it for my FIL for years. The single best load according to my records is 36.0 grains of IMR 4064 in Winchester brass, WLR primers, behind a Hornady or Sierra 117 grain SPBT seated 0.020" off the lands. My FIL could drive nails with that load; I saw him kill a standing coyote at just over 300 yards with it while leaning on a fence post. He also killed his last deer with it. Great round!
 
#4 ·
Shot a lot of 117 Sierra SBT in mine, used 35.5 of IMR4064 nothing seemed to do the job as well. Then Varget may. I did shoot it in hunter bench rest competition at 200yds. That was in a 722 Rem. Bought a Ruger round top in the same cal and it liked 87gn spire pts the best, and IMR4320.
 
#6 ·
I have reloaded the 257 Roberts for almost 40 years. My Dad has a custom Mauser that is a tack driver with 4064 and either the Speer 100gr Spitzer or the Rem 100gr Core-Lokt. I know my Dad has killed at least 50 deer and a load of coyotes with the .257. I killed my first deer at the age of 8 with the old Bob. I used to load the 87 gr bullets for coyotes, but the rifle always liked the 100 gr bullets better. With my Dad behind the trigger, no varmint or deer within 300 yds was safe.

Gary
 
#7 ·
The Robert's case capacity versus the size of the hole in the end of the barrel means that it achieves its highest velocities with the heavier 117 and 120 grain bullets using slow powders favored by the 270, such as Reloder 22, H4831, IMR 4831, Reloder 19, and the various 4350's. 2900 should be quite safe with 120's and 3200 with 100 grain bullets given a reasonable barrel length. Varget won't quite get you there.

I have a 22 inch barreled Ruger Mk II. 3500 fps is not terribly difficult to obtain with a 75 grain bullet, and Varget and IMR 4064 work just great for that. As long as bullet weights are not too dissimilar, point of impact is close enough that some load switching may be done without rezeroing the rifle.

It has been said in various places that the Roberts has a tendency to favor 100's over 117's and 120's due to the normal 1-10 twist being just a tad too slow for best accuracy with the heavier bullets. Of course you'll find out if that's true for yourself, and I note that Hornady has a 110 grain bullet now that should be easy to get 3000 fps or a bit more with reasonable loading. This caliber has a lot of available bullet weights and is a real sweetheart to load for, and to shoot.
 
#8 ·
Both of mine are Remington 722's. One came to me in 1973 when my Grandfather passed away. The other came in 2008 when Dad "retired" from hunting at 81 years old. Grandfather's was a used 1949 purchased in 1953 and Dad's was new in 1952. The 257Roberts was king in our house. IMR4350 was THE powder when Dad started handloading in 1957. Bullets were 117gr Hornady and 120gr Sierra. I found a box of 125gr Barnes and hoarded them for years. I have about 6 left.

+1 what 35Remington posted. My records closely parallel his posted results.

Jeff
NRA Life
 
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#9 ·
There are a lot more 257 shooters/fans here than I expected! Not much I can add to what's already been posted, their powder recommendations mirror mine, though I'm still trying to figure out what my M-77 Ruger likes best. I've gotten groups a shade under an inch, but I think it will do better. Keep us posted when you get a chance to shoot it, and as always, please feel obligated to post pictures for all the gunporn junkies among us. :proud:
 
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#10 ·
Thanks to you and Sweetwater. IMR 4350 has become my favorite rifle powder over the years. I use it in 165gr 30-06, 90gr 243, and now will try it in the "Bob" with 117gr Hornady SST. I will post a picture of the rifle. It's a Kimber 84M with a Zeiss Conquest 3-9X40 in Leupold mounts. I bought it this summer and due to health issues haven't had the chance to shoot it. All is much better now so soon it and some LE FTX loads with my 35 336 are off to the range.
 
#12 ·
Yeah, there's a lot of us "Bob" fans around here.
Like .35Rem stated, the 'Bob is better with the slower burning powders. I started my 'bob loading in 1983 and with some original lot#'s of H4831. With newer lot#'s, I'm seeing over 3,000fps and near 3,100fps with a modest loading at 48.5gr. You can go heavier, but I've seen fabulous accuracy at this loading. On a lark, with a rifle I was having accuracy issues with (Ruger M77MkII), I tried an oldy but goody load of 38.0gr of IMR3031. This got 3,050fps from the Ruger and was the single most accurate load from it and only one to give MOA for 5-shots.


FWIW use bullet without a cannulure. I've gotten best accuracy from Sierra and Speer bullets due to lack of cannulure. Nosler's are good but are un-neccessary for most 'Bob applications. The Hornady "Interloks" are good but often aren't as accurate. The "on-game" performace of the Hornady's has been as good as the Noslers in my experience. Hence, I typically load up on the "blems" that are offered. My current "stash" of .257" bullets are heavy in 100 and 117gr Hornady's. I don't expect sub-moa from the bullets, (though sometimes I pleasantly suprised) but on-game performance leaves nothing wanting.

My favorite load with 115gr loads is 45.0gr of IMR4831. I stumbled across this load working up a load in the above mentioned Ruger for the Berger 115gr VLD. This load gets at or near 3,000fps from the 115gr bullets. With a 117gr Flat-base bullet and all 120's, I drop this to 44.0gr. This is a "sleeper" powder in the 'Bob. Not a lot of print given it, but it has pleased me with every use. Reloader22 hasn't been as good in my experience. Perhaps a tad "slow". H4350 is fast, but in my experience not as accurate as the IMR4350, which is my favorite with 100gr bullets. (45.0gr of course! Gives 2,970fps from my 22" bbl's).

I've found the extruded powders to be more accurate, with IMR4350 a favorite, but don't discount H414 or H380. My Custom M98 Mauser has an E.R.Shaw barrel on it that when new shot these really well. It still does, but has some pitting in the mid-bore area and quickly fouls now. But, with a clean barrel and loads it likes is still sub-moa. For shooting under 300yds, use a flat-base bullet for superior accuracy.
I haven't had time to try it yet in the 'Bob, but from what I'm seeing in the 7mm08 and .30/06; Reloader17 may be the next great thing in the 'Bob....
Due to aquiring a .22-250 in '06, I now no longer expect to shoot bullets lighter than 100gr from the 'Bob. That, and a Remington Mod-7 in .260Rem is my latest "darling" and will be for some time to come.
 
#13 ·
I thought I'd bump this thread with some updated info, I'm still playing with loads in my Ruger 77 MkII, and trying a powder I've had good luck with in the .308, namely Alliant's fairly-new 2000-MR, a medium rifle powder. Since I'm shooting a rifle that is capable of handling higher-than-traditional pressures (for the 257) I'm moving into Plus-P territory. Data's still pretty scarce, but it's out there id you look hard enough.

With 100-grain bullets, 40 grains of 2000-MR gets me an average of 2862 fps. 41 grains bumps it up to 2926, with better accuracy in this rifle. My top load of 42 grains gets the average up to 2937, and a hint of high pressure, so I think I'll leave it at 41 grains, a gain of 9 fps doesn't mean much, and tells me the load is about maxed out.

I just reloaded the brass with WW760 (same as H-414, IIRC) and Sierra 90 and 100 grain boat-tails, we'll see if the gun likes that any better. If not, one of the 4831's is up next, since I have a lot of 117/120 grain bullets to play with. I want to isolate a load for this rifle, and load up a ton of it, and stop fiddling with it!
 
#15 ·
John, what do you suggest as an optimal powder for the 100-grainers? I've got a lot of medium burners, but not many slower varieties. IMR-4831 is likely the slowest powder I have.......but I'm never averse to buying something new!
 
#16 ·
Friend Dave and I have had good luck with Reloder 19, which approximates 4350/4831. Given that this is amply slow for 100 grain bullets, and given that the 6mm Remington achieves this 3100/3200 speed with a smaller bore, it seems sensible that the Roberts can do it too. Alliant's more recent 2011 data lists 3163 fps loads for the 6mm, while the Roberts reaches a rather disappointing 2900 to 3050 fps.

That's not right.

I've always thought even the +P Roberts stuff is loaded lower than it can be. And it is.

Alliant goes to about 44.7 grains of RL 19 with a 100 grain bullet just recently, which is ridiculously low, and I won't be shy to mention we're noticeably above that, as in 50 grains even. RP brass was used, and WW primers. Our average was about 3180 fps. I don't know that there's anything magic about the powder; we're just emulating 6mm/270 pressure levels. Older Alliant data went to 47.2 grains with a 100 Speer spitzer and claimed 3100 from a 24 inch barrel. At 47.9 K "copper units."

At the same time the 264 Win was loaded to about 52 CU's while the 270 Weatherby went to 55.

We also liked 45.0 IMR 4064 and the 75 VMax for about a 3540 fps average, which is reasonable from my 22" Mk II (bet it looks just like yours); I have a Burris 3-9 Fullfield II on it. Love the caliber, has it all for hunting around here. Great coyote gun as hides around here aren't worth much and I can hit them a ways away if I'm shooting straight.

47.5 to 48.0 RL22 and the 120 Speer flatbase got around 2900 which seems like a good maximum and a definite "do not exceed." A half grain less was about 50 fps slower. 44.5 to 45.0 IMR4831 was similar in velocity and is top end IMO. 48.0 H4831SC got 2830 to 2840 which surprised me as I expected it to do about the same as RL 22 in identical charges.

What's interesting is where these charges lie in previous data. Alliant used to list 46.5 RL22 and the 120 Sierra HPBT as producing 48 copper units. Hmm? Again, my suggested loads are more than are listed, but not much, over Alliant's previous data, and case life has been good.

Reason says 2900 is a good place to quit with a 120 in a 22 inch barrel, and we do. Reason also says that 100's at 3150 to 3200 are reasonable, and that's where we go. 75's get 3500 with the right powder. And simple observation says that a lot of the recent Plus P Roberts data still isn't very plus P. In fact some of it is going backward.

And the rifle shoots cast bullets like gangbusters, too. If I could keep one or two rifles and had to lose the rest this one would be on my short list.

Been also shooting some 110's lately.
 
#25 ·
simple observation says that a lot of the recent Plus P Roberts data still isn't very plus P. In fact some of it is going backward.

Been also shooting some 110's lately.
Have you had any luck with the 110? Any load data?

.257 Roberts......

I loaded some Nosler cases. 110 Accubond, IMR 4350 @ 43.5gr, CCI LR BR2, OAL 2.873 .045 off lands. Ruger Hawkeye UL 20" barrel. Only getting average 2695fps measured with a digital ProChrono. No pressure signs. About 100fps slower than factory Nosler Trophy Grade ammo chronoed the same day @ average 2800fps.
 
#17 ·
Since I've started started reloading a few years ago I've become a fan of the .243 for general shooting and whitetail hunting...I've also been considering for some time to purchasing a quarter-bore rifle to add to my arsenal...I haven't quite decided between a .257 Robert or a .25-06...I always enjoy reading the comments about other's experience regarding what powder works best with a certain grain of bullet. Interesting thread!
 
#18 ·
PWB - my Dad vacilated over getting a 25-06, to go with his 257Roberts, or to have one of his 257 Roberts opened up to an Ackley. Once I got the chronograph and he could see what he was getting with his Roberts (I read where only Southerners call it "the Bob", LOL), he no longer talked about either one being done. My sister had a 25-06 as well as one of my girl friends had one. In all fairness, the 25-06 is a tad superior, but on the surface, it just appears to be a way to burn more powder to get to the same place. They all have a certain cult following, so I'm guessing pick your cult and fire away! LOL! Not a bad choice out there.

Jeff
NRA Life
 
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#19 ·
I have a Ruger MK II .30-06 that I may have re-chambered/re-barreled to .25-06...but I am still leaning towards a .257 Bob....I read where the .25-06 favors a 24 inch barrel and wonder if that applies to the .257 Bob? Either way, one of them is on my short list of rifles to have!
 
#20 ·
The 22 inch .257 gets quite adequate velocities, and I'd regard that as more "appropriate" than a 22 inch .270 or 25-06, and I say that although I know it's a given that more 22 inch 270's are sold than any other type (but I bet we would all rather have 24 inch 270's if somebody offered them in production guns....that's why I've always believed that a 22 inch 270 is optimized with a 150 grain bullet, not a 130).

But I doubt if you went to 24 that the extra 2 inches would snag on every tree limb within 100 yards. Buy what you want and be happy, but don't worry about 24 if you can only get a 22. Or vice versa.

My nominee for "closest to mild loads but good velocity" with a 120 grain bullet is so far IMR 4831. IMR listed/lists (now Hodgdon) 44.0 grains IMR 4831, and I was pleased to find it got greater velocity from a 22 inch barrel than they listed from a 24. Since it was stated as 45,000 CUP (which implied a tiny bit of increase was possible) I went one grain over that and hit 2900 fps. Nice. This should be most reassuring to those who like to stick as close as possible to printed data.

Sometimes "shopping around" does pay dividends.
 
#22 ·
Odd as this sounds in a bottlenecked high velocity rifle, I've used plainbase and gaschecked bullet in the rifle and find it does quite well. But most rounds of this type do better than we would think, and the slightly smaller than '06 size case capacity seems to be a benefit. Try some 2400, 4759, 5744, 4227, etc. and you'll do well. It actually helps if the rifle has a few jacketed rounds through it to ease the leade somewhat, but my rifle shot decently with cast from the get go. 1600/1800 fps with gaschecked bullets works well.

Can't say I've used that particular bullet you mention though.
 
#23 ·
Reflecting back to "what Dad did" again, his and Grampie's 257's came with 24" barrels (Remington Model722) and he had them cut back to 21", for reasons unknown to me. His load of 45gr of IMR4350 with 117gr and 120gr jacketed (His favorite for accuracy was a Norma bullet, no longer available). When I inherited these rifles, Dad suggested I play with 100gr bullets as he had come to believe they were "enough for Whitetails". I am away from home right now, but I recall a bunch of loads in the 3100-3200fps arena.

Stepping outside the box, open to discussion, the rifles are equal and the brass is equal, so, if the 257 has greater case capacity than the 260Remington, is there any tangible reason for the 257 to be loaded at any less pressure than the 260? Not to me. Just because "SAAMI says" is not enough reason for me, as they have proven to be fairly arbitrary in their pressure ratings. Got any "real reasons"?

Jeff
NRA Life
 
#24 ·
The 257 Roberts is the ONLY rifle caliber that SAAMI has established a Plus-P standard for, IIRC the old data was limited to 54,000 PSI, the Plus-P data is allowed 58,000. Not a huge difference, but enough to help give it a boost. The older limit was set back in the 1920's when we were still learning about making better barrel steels, but has no relevance today, which is why SAAMI recognized the need for hotter loads. There aren't a lot of rifles chambered for the Roberts these days, mostly due to the success and popularity of the 25-06, but Ruger, Kimber and a few other quality/custom riflemakers do chamber it. I think it's a better choice than some of the newer offerings, it's not the short/fat (more efficient) configuration so popular these days, but I still like the ballistics. It's nothing more than a necked-down 7mm Mauser (7x57), one of the most popular chamberings ever made.

I'm a fan of the 100-grain .257" bullets, myself. I don't see the need for the 117-and 120-grainers unless you're going after mule deer or elk. And while the 25-06 can use every bit of a 24 (or even 26) inch barrel, I think the Roberts does just fine in a 22-inch tube.

 
#27 · (Edited)
For anyone thinking of getting a new rifle in the Roberts, the new Winchester Model 70 has been offered in 257 as a special edition or special buy for the last two years and you may still find one out there. Might be worth a check with your Winchester dealer. I have two of these special editions in the new Model 70 and can recommend the gun, highly. Both shoot under an inch, as advertised, with the right factory loads.

My 2013 Maple Edition Featherweight in 257 Roberts (now wearing a scope, of course).



My Super Grade in 257


A friend of mine at our shooting range also has the Kimber Classic II in 257 and can highly recommend it, too.
 
#32 ·
Wow N. Country Gal!! What a couple beautiful Model 70s.

I just picked this one up at an estate auction. It's a 1985 Model 70 XTR Featherweight in 257 Bob with a Leupold VX2 3x9 scope and sling. I researched the guns I was interested in, so knew a little about the caliber. I can't buy factory ammo locally, and I thought the round was a little weak for our big bodied MN deer, so I didn't want to pay too much for it. I reload so I figured if I get it, it's no big deal, just one more set of dies. Well, when you actually hold one of these in your hands everything changes, it appeared to be unfired, a safe Queen (there were 80 guns in this one estate, mostly new and unfired with accessories). I was surprised when no one bid on it and I got it for $400. Brought it home, cleaned it up and really fell in love with this rifle. I've been doing some research on load recipes for the 257 Bob and am now thinking I underestimated this caliber!

That's how I got to this thread, and what a load of great info and knowledge. I only own 1 Marlin, a model 60 tube fed .22 with the squirrel on the stock, the first gun I ever bought with my own money when I was 10 years old. I am really getting pumped up to get the 70XTR to the range as soon as it gets above 30 degrees and the 6 feet of snow melts. I need to start picking up some cases, bullets and a set of dies, I already have several of the powders suggested and primers.

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#28 ·
I had a Remington 700 Classic many years ago, and a sporterized Mauser 98 with a Win. Model 70 barrel, both in .257 Roberts. This is a wonderful little cartridge. Very accurate, minimal recoil and muzzle blast. It's one of my 2 favorite deer cartridges (the other being 7x57.) My hunting load was 49.0 gr. of H4831 behind a 117 gr Nosler partition bullet, yielding 2975 fps (per the loading manual, I didn't have a chronograph in those days.) This was a maximum load, so be sure to approach it carefully if you choose it. This was a wonderful hunting load--I once hit a blacktail deer that field dressed 135 lbs in the hind quarter, and the bullet penetrated nearly the entire length of the deer, exiting just behind the opposite shoulder. The NPB is, IMO, the perfect bullet in this round for hunting. It always gives deep penetration and good expansion. I think you've made an excellent choice in both rifle and cartridge.

The Roberts is a different animal with handloads than factory loads, giving nearly .25-06 performance. the factories don't offer anything like possible velocities in this round due to the high numbers of old, weak actions around. I've often wondered why nobody has come out with a .257 cartridge based on the .243 Win. case, similar to the way they did with the 7mm '08. Like the latter, it could improve on the older round (7x57 in the case of the 7mm '08) because it'd only be available in the newer, stronger actions. I think it'd be neat to have a factory round that'd offer .25-'06 performance in a short cartridge.
 
#31 ·
I've often wondered why nobody has come out with a .257 cartridge based on the .243 Win. case, similar to the way they did with the 7mm '08. Like the latter, it could improve on the older round (7x57 in the case of the 7mm '08) because it'd only be available in the newer, stronger actions. I think it'd be neat to have a factory round that'd offer .25-'06 performance in a short cartridge.
Winchester's 25 WSSM was available in the model 70 and Browning A-Bolt and it equaled the velocity of the 25-06. It was discontinued after only a couple years of production. The 25-08 has been a wildcat for some time without anybody daring to make it a commercial cartridge.
 
#29 ·
PJ, I had a Ruger 77 in .257 went the whole route on bullets trying to get one hole groups at 200.

Nothing seemed to work well til I tried some 87 gn spire pts and IMR4320, Hornady 75HPs worked well also.

Both them bullets shot the one hole groups I wanted, but not till I was at near max loads.

My Remington would not shoot the light bullets anywhere near a group.
 
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