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Thread: The Ballistics of Assassination



  1. #41
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    All,

    I am enjoying all this discussion. One question that I have not see addressed yet which I believe is very factual is that Jackie crawled backwards on the limo to collect pieces of JFKs head. I am not a ballistics expert but in all the shooting I have done I have never seen anything other blood splatter fly backwards. For that reason alone I have always felt that JFK died from a shot from the front.

    However, I have been to Elm street and personally seen the actual distance and angle involved and I agree that anyone with a decent rifle and some good training could have made the shot.

    Help me with the skull pieces flying backward.
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  2. #42
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    Nope, haven't seen it.
    Thanks...that explains a lot.


    It's based on the premise the Carcano couldn't have produced such a wound, is it not?
    No....it does not make that claim. Only that a particular type of bullet usually does not.

    It is based heavily on the findings of Donahue, who said the Carcano couldn't have produced such a wound, is it not?
    Again no....the movie doesn't claim it impossible for that to happen. Other evidence is used to determine why in this case the bullet did not produce the wound on Kennedy. The movie has nothing to do with the type of rifle used other than to explain what it was. It's all about the bullet...not the rifle itself

    It claims the SS agent shot the president with an AR 15, does it not?
    No....the claim is that is the most plausible explanation but go on to say we will really never know for certain.

    Again....thanks for clearing up the fact you haven't even viewed the movie.
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  3. #43
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    But I have. Look on YouTube.

    It's still pap, sorry. That particular type of bullet had every chance of making the wound it did. The "investigation" is based on the flawed findings of Donohue or it would not have occurred in the first place. The basing of the investigation on a flawed assumption with no witnesses to an event that would have been extremely obvious to viewers in close proximity makes the whole thing, again, pap.

    Again, one of the least believable theories I've ever heard, bar none. It's one of the least plausible things I've ever heard about the assassination and I wonder about the state of these men's minds to think such a thing could be possible despite a complete lack of witnesses and given such an elemental ballistic blunder. It's received almost zero play anywhere else in the media, which gives some indication of what everyone else thinks of it. A little more knowledge of ballistics would have prevented the tragic loss of the time spent on a worthless investigation that has very few adherents.

    Steed, see the analysis in 30 WCF's post on page three for some insight.
    Last edited by 35remington; 11-24-2013 at 05:39 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteedGun View Post
    All,

    I am enjoying all this discussion. One question that I have not see addressed yet which I believe is very factual is that Jackie crawled backwards on the limo to collect pieces of JFKs head. I am not a ballistics expert but in all the shooting I have done I have never seen anything other blood splatter fly backwards. For that reason alone I have always felt that JFK died from a shot from the front.

    However, I have been to Elm street and personally seen the actual distance and angle involved and I agree that anyone with a decent rifle and some good training could have made the shot.

    Help me with the skull pieces flying backward.
    Hey Steed,

    Am with you on this.

    If Lee Harvey was where everyone says he was, what in the world was poor Mrs. Kennedy doing scooping poor Mr. Kennedy's brains off the trunk of the limo?

    And, how in the world did the "single" bullet create all of those wounds, from that angle?

    One more. Who was the policeman chasing on the "grassy knoll"?

    Later, Mark
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  5. #45
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    m, please take the time to read this thread before asking questions that have already been answered, and please limit commentary to the ballistics of the event.

  6. #46
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    Gohon,
    I would suggest that you pick up a copy of the book I referenced. It answers a number of your questions.
    SInce the car was moving forward and the brain matter went upward it was suspended momentarily before falling back down, by which time the car had moved thusly some of it then landing on the trunk lid and the policemen riding directly behind as well as the Connally's....
    i
    Page 213 of the book ....
    "Frame 313 of the Zapruder movie shows the moment of impact of the second bullet to strike Kennedy this time in the back of the head. Fragments of his skull and a cloud of brain tissue can be seen driven forward and up, away from his head by the impact of the bullet.

    The pieces of skull can be seen ten or twelve feet in the air in frame 313, but they flew thirty+ feet in the air during our experimental replications of the event and probably flew as high as this in Dallas.


    The cloud of vaporized brain tissue that occurred in our experiments was so large that that it is not surprising that, in the actual event, the motorcycle police escort, just behind the car rode forward into this cloud of exploded brain tissue which wet their fronts as it descended.

    Governor and Mrs. Connally both spoke in their testimony of being spattered with Kennedy’s brain tissue in fragments as large as a fingernail."

    Author John Lattimer used the same full jacketed 6.5 ammunition (Western) that Oswald used and in his testing it produced the same effect as the bullet did on Kennedy's head.

    w30wcf
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gohon View Post
    Either of you watch the special on television a few weeks ago called "The Smoking Gun"? A very plausible theory and one that makes more sense than all the conspiracy theories out there. I think Oswald was the lone shooter trying to kill Kennedy but I don't think a heavy solid 6.5x52 mm military round would create the hydraulic force to blow out the top of Kennedy's head, especially at the angle of the bullet path which should have blown out the front of his face around the eye socket. That particular bullet was not designed to come apart and the second shot certainly didn't after going through Kennedy and the Governor (three Times) while breaking bones at that. Anyway, if you didn't see the special which I think was on the Reelz Channel, try to get a look at it and see what you think.

    I might be wrong, but I believe the x-rays of Kennedy's wounds disappeared like everything else connected with Kennedy's death and the only thing available were sketches made by doctors of the wounds. How and why bullet fragments showed up are explained by the lab tech that developed the x-ray film.
    I think an accidental discharge by the inexperienced Secret Service agent is a theory that hasn't been scientifically ruled out. I am curious, however about two things. First, if he fired a shot from his AR-15, it would seem that a large number of people is relative close proximity to him, particularly those in his vehicle and the motorcycle officers, would have instantly realized that someone discharged a rifle in their immediate proximity. Even the bystanders along Elm Street would have noticed that. No one reported gunfire from the vehicle, however. Secondly, there was never any discussion (that I heard) about the shell casing that would eject from the AR. Naturally, that evidence--if it existed--would have been destroyed along with the other evidence, such as Kennedy's brain.

    I do believe, and have always believed, that the preponderance of the evidence is that there was a second shooter. Again, the possibility that a second shooter was the Secret Service agent with the AR has not been ruled out from a forensic standpoint.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57 Texan View Post
    .......I do believe, and have always believed, that the preponderance of the evidence is that there was a second shooter. Again, the possibility that a second shooter was the Secret Service agent with the AR has not been ruled out from a forensic standpoint.
    Actually, it has. In 1978, Neutron activation analysis was used to test the bullet fragments left in Kennedy's brain. The atomic composition of those fragments matched the atomic composition of the ammunition Oswald used. So.....if the AR-15 was accidentally fired, the bullet missed Kennedy.

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  9. #49
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    57, I also thought it was ridiculous that nobody noticed if the agent's AR 15 accidentally went off as well, and the book (and therefore the documentary) doesn't even address the fact that no witnesses to said event have ever stepped forward......even though there must have been hundreds of people who would have seen it occur had it happened.

    Said theory fails this very obvious and elemental test, which is half the reason it's the most loony thing I've ever heard.

  10. #50
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    Further, from viewing the very same evidence as everyone else, I've always been convinced that the preponderance of the evidence very strongly suggests there is not a second shooter.

    No differing bullet fragments, no separate bullet holes, etc. Nothing to suggest anything else has been found. All believable leads that could have been followed up on as verifiable seem to be completely exhausted, which is what you'd expect of a event that has had a half century pass.


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