Just Sell It...

[Oberhaz]

Ok, so you bought this gun that wouldn't group. Did the seller disclose that it wouldn't group? I think not or you wouldn't have bought it. Also, what does "it wouldn't group" mean? If it that means you don't get the accuracy you want at 100 yards, it certainly doesn't mean that the gun is unusuable. I want less than 2" at 100 yards. Maybe someone else is fine with 4", or maybe someone else can shoot better than me and takes a gun I get 3" with and he/she gets 1.5".

And I read everyone say, oh yeah, I'd tell...I'd give a full disclosure. Nice to say when you are writing it on here, but I seriously doubt everyone does that. Ive said this before, so I'm not just making it up for this post...If I have a gun that I can't get to shoot my 2" or under at 100 yards, I'm selling it. If there is something broken on it, I'd tell the person...it has a broken firing pin, crack in the stock, etc. But if I just can't make it shoot to my liking, I'm just selling it.

You won't be selling it here. I couldn't resist. I understand, I don't want a gun that I cant shoot either.

[44-40 Willy]

Ok, so you bought this gun that wouldn't group. Did the seller disclose that it wouldn't group? I think not or you wouldn't have bought it. Also, what does "it wouldn't group" mean? If it that means you don't get the accuracy you want at 100 yards, it certainly doesn't mean that the gun is unusuable. I want less than 2" at 100 yards. Maybe someone else is fine with 4", or maybe someone else can shoot better than me and takes a gun I get 3" with and he/she gets 1.5".

And I read everyone say, oh yeah, I'd tell...I'd give a full disclosure. Nice to say when you are writing it on here, but I seriously doubt everyone does that. Ive said this before, so I'm not just making it up for this post...If I have a gun that I can't get to shoot my 2" or under at 100 yards, I'm selling it. If there is something broken on it, I'd tell the person...it has a broken firing pin, crack in the stock, etc. But if I just can't make it shoot to my liking, I'm just selling it.

When I sold that 44-40 Vaquero, I told the buyer that Ruger used a larger 44 Mag barrel instead of a proper 44-40 barrel and that the chamber necks were to 44-40 specs (smaller than 44 Mag). He bought it for a project.

[sandman7925]

I bought a 1895 from a guy once allready scoped out. It would not shoot any kind of semblance of a group. It was all over the place. I removed the scope and put it back on and made sure every thing was torqued down right. Tried shooting again with same resuts. Removed everything including the bases and remounted. Shot it again and had same results. This particular rifle had the XS scout scope system on it. So I sat back and looked at it and said to myself that must be it. Tore that junk off and put some normal rings and bases on it and today it is my most accurate rifle.
That guy must've thought he sold me a lemon. His loss

And that was my first and last experience with the XS scout scope rail

[SwampDude]

Swampdude, +1 on telling the truth and keeping some integrity and self-respect for yourself!

The problem is that most companies now don't have any integrity. Magazines like Guns and Ammo give glowing reviews to products that they know are absolute junk. They print lies about how the whole thing with shutting down the Marlin factory happened. It's because if they got up and told the truth, their advertising revenue would get shut off. When it comes to manufacturing, companies do like Bain Capital, they fire everyone and outsource the work. Then, they just call up the chinese translator to tell the production crew to hurry the hell up, and when products come rolling off the line that are substandard, you know what they do? They box it up and, "just sell it".

It's not just guns either, it's our whole economy now. Have you looked at new washers and dryers lately? This corporate profits track we've been on for 30 years now is crushing our country.

I'm with ya, Johnny. The poor quality of new goods is disheartening. My defense is to shop for brands that still stand for quality, and that always means paying a premium. For big ticket items, like computers, TVs, appliances, heating-A/C, I always buy extended warranty coverage. Buying this way costs more, but the fear of disappointing quality justifies the higher cost of ownership.

With respect to private sales of guns, cars and other stuff, the principles of honesty and integrity may be a generational thing. Someone suggested its easier for folks to say they have it here than to have it in real life. That might be true for some, but not for everyone. My generation (the old peckerwoods) used to sell and trade stuff on a handshake, and our reputation in our small home towns meant a lot. My dad sold groceries, feed and gasoline for a living, a lot of which was bought by customers "on the book" (on credit). People would bring in fresh eggs, corn and other produce to help pay off their credit balance; most would do whatever it took to keep from failing my dad. That was before the buyer/seller beware mentality.

I'd like to think religious values are still a powerful force in our society. If thats the case, honesty is still alive and well, at least at the grassroots where we still buy, sell and trade guns every day.

[sandman7925]

Swampdude, +1 on telling the truth and keeping some integrity and self-respect for yourself!

The problem is that most companies now don't have any integrity. Magazines like Guns and Ammo give glowing reviews to products that they know are absolute junk. They print lies about how the whole thing with shutting down the Marlin factory happened. It's because if they got up and told the truth, their advertising revenue would get shut off. When it comes to manufacturing, companies do like Bain Capital, they fire everyone and outsource the work. Then, they just call up the chinese translator to tell the production crew to hurry the hell up, and when products come rolling off the line that are substandard, you know what they do? They box it up and, "just sell it".

It's not just guns either, it's our whole economy now. Have you looked at new washers and dryers lately? This corporate profits track we've been on for 30 years now is crushing our country.

Reviewers are not sent products to review if they are honest in their reviews in most cases. Chuck Hawks wrote a good article about modern firearms and the people who review them. He is the only one that is honest in his reviews that I've found.
IMO the thin that is crushing our country is liability. If you own a business in the US it is almost a matter of time before you are sued. And chances are it will not be a legitmat claim. Exxon/Mobile is sued every 15 minutes. That's just one example. The amount of money that businesses have to spend to protect themselves is insane. It drives the prices up on everything from a gallon of milk to a gallon of fuel. It drives employee wages and benefits down.
If I was put in charge the first thing I would do is assemble a group of people allot smarter than myself to begin to fix this problem. And I would pass a law stating that if a person claims suet on a another and it is found to be frivolous then criminal charges must be pressed on the liar. I am 100% positive that if we fixed this problem the cost of goods would drop and business would flourish.

[Jonny V]

Sandman, I hear what you're saying with the litigation process in our country, and there's no doubt the costs are through the roof. Also, frivolous litigation has exploded over the last 30 years too, the same as the outsourcing and tax break loopholes for gutting our nation. There's a lot of sides to this, from 50 cents a day workers in other countries, to GE getting a tax refund of 3.5 billion on taxes they never paid in the first place, to making everything out of injection moulded plastic, and did I mention that corporate (shareholder) profits have never (in the history of mankind) been higher than they are right now?

We're being gutted by the "Donald Trump" business model, where it's no longer good enough to simply make a nice profit. In the new way of doing it, if the profits don't increase every quarter, then "someone will be fired". Our current system is unsustainable, and crappy guns that won't group are just a symptom of it. The model is "sell, sell, sell" and they'll lie to your face as long as they have to in order to separate you from your money.

[grilla720]

Sandman, thanks for the info on the XS scope system. I've been thinking of buying one, wasn't sure of it and now I probably won't fool with one.

[Jonny V]

Grilla, don't be too quick to write off the XS Scout Mount.......

[Oberhaz]

Sandman, thanks for the info on the XS scope system. I've been thinking of buying one, wasn't sure of it and now I probably won't fool with one.

I wouldn't shy away from an XS lever rail. I installed one without any problems and my gun shot excellent groups with it. They have a video one YouTube that explains the install step by step.

[sandman7925]

I'm sure most people have good results with the XS rail. But Im the "fool me once never twice" kinda guy