Big Bore AR-15 Comparrisons

[MULEMAN]

I have been interested in a new bigger size AR for a while, but a new AR-10 platform is not in the budget. Therefore I am considering a new upper for my M&P 15. I have looked back thru the post's and gained some info, but would really like to see some comments and comparisons from some of you who have used these things. I was leaning toward the 450 Bushmaster for ammo availability? Then I saw where the 458 SOCOM can use many of the same bullets as the 45-70 with similar results and now this seems better? I already reload for 45-70 and cast bullets for it. I just don't know much of anything about the 50 Beowolf, besides it sounds real cool, "BEOWOLF"? I am thinking these new Barnes Buster bullets in the 458 SOCOM may be the ticket? Are cases available for reloading for all of these? How much are they? Thanks for info from those of you who are familiar with these things.

[MULEMAN]

Ok, I just got back from visiting Midway USA and here is what I have found

"450 BUSHMASTER" "50 BEOWOLF" "458 SOCOM"

UPPER $699.00 av. $749.00 av. $725.00 av. @ Rock River Arms
DIE SET $66.99 av. hornady $30.49 av. lee $ 31.99 -$77.99 av. from 3 makers
BRASS $41.99/50(out)exp.2-22-11 $66.99/100 av. A. Arms $78.99 av. Starline
BULLETS $26.99/50 av.(others also?) $26.99/50av. (others also?) $26.99 av. ( 7 pages of others ?)
LOADED AMMO $28.00/20 av. $60.00 & up av. $46.99 & up av.

I was surprised, except for their being no 450 Bushmaster brass available everything else was available. I was not sure of exactly which bullets would work in the 450 and the 50, but they were two pages of possibilities. The 458 had 7 pages of possibilities. Loaded ammo 450, 1 possibility that was also available. 50 and 458 several possibilities, not all available, but they were much higher $ than the Hornady ammo for the 450. My conclusion is the 458 will be more friendly for the reloader, while the 450 will be better for someone who does not. The 50 ? well it still sounds cool "BEOWOLF". So now the question still remains, which is better for killing things like Hogs and Deer and brush hunting??

[Charlie98]

Aside from just waiting to get the AR-10 (probably the best solution in the long run, depending on your purposes...) I would probably go with the .458. Of the three rounds, the .458 seems to have broken through as the most accepted round, based on what I have seen on other forums, and appears to be the most flexable, reloading component-wise. Not that there isn't a giant Cool Factor in shooting a .50 cal round, even if it's a baby .50...!

Going back to my original premise... I would probably wait and get the AR-10, iffn that's what you really want. It's far more versatile than any of those other rounds, has a market flush with reloading components and information, including low-cost surplus and premium loaded ammo.

[MULEMAN]

I really like the cartridges offered in the AR-10. However, I have handled a a few different ones at the gun stores and they are incredably heavy and somewhat combersome to me. I was kinda thinking this big bore option in a AR-15 would maybe provide the stopping power of my 45-70 with the fast handling and lighter carry of my AR-15. For me anyway, the AR-10 would have to be used from a rest or stand, where as the AR-15 with the larger caliber would still allow me to use it as a brush gun for off hand shots. I was hopeing some hog hunters would chime in with some hunting stories with one of them.

[SChoghunter]

I have a friend with a 450 bushmaster and it is devistating out to 200yds. I also have been looking for a "big bore" AR and was considering the 450 but then I went to a small local gun shop that has a DPMS in 308 with the 16"bbl,and tacticle stock .It is a little heavier but I dont reload and there is a lot of factory ammo for the 308 . So you might want to look at all options out there for a AR "bigbore" and maybe find something you like even if you have to save for bit more.


Chris

[unforgiven]

Besides bullet selection advantages of the 458, some seem to think that it feeds better than the others since it's a bottleneck cartridge. It also uses inexpensive 5.56mm (.223) magazines. Reloading is recommended if you plan to shoot much. Otherwise, a box or two of 458 for hunting and using the 5.56mm upper for practice will do just fine.

I don't think there's significant difference in performance between the 458 and 50. Both can probably handle heavier bullets than the 450.

[Charlie98]

I really like the cartridges offered in the AR-10. However, I have handled a a few different ones at the gun stores and they are incredably heavy and somewhat combersome to me. I was kinda thinking this big bore option in a AR-15 would maybe provide the stopping power of my 45-70 with the fast handling and lighter carry of my AR-15.

There is something to that, however... that being your purpose. I can see your point, the AR-10 is a mite bigger. That is the advantage to the big-bore options on the smaller AR chassis.

Going waaay off the reservation... you could get a Springfield Socom16... an M1a with a 16" barrel. It's shorter than my AR H-Bar... and packs waaay more punch!

[SAWMAN]

I'll jump in on this one if I may. I own a 50Beowulf upper for my Bushmaster lower. I have had it for some 6+ years now. I got it back in the day that you could actually call Alexander Arms and talk with Bill Alexander. He was very helpful and I bought and installed it. I also bought some ammo(300gr Gold Dot's) while the price was right. IIRC they were $24 per box of 20. A year or so later I found a great deal on a case of the same so I swooped it up. Reason being....it shot so darned good.

I tooled up to reload for it but never got started due to the performance of the factory ammo. The 50BW shoots a true .500" bullet(not a .510/.511" like the 50BMG). There are several great bullets available to the hand loaders. This, including the 350gr and the 500gr Hornady XTP's. Any bullet that works thru a 500 S&W Mag will work thru a BW. Also the Power Belt line(.50cal) of muzzle loader bullets will shoot fine in a BW. These you can get from 223gr to 348gr. Just remove the "skirt" before you load it.

The Beowulf hits hard and cuts a half inch hole going in. I have never had any hog escape being slammed with the 300gr GD. The factory loading is loaded up to 1800fps and this seems to be the optimum velocity for penetration AND the opening of the excellently designed hollow point. I hit a gnarly old boar square on the shoulder plate at 40yds,several years ago. This hog weighed 295lbs. The bullet punched thru the near side plate,jelled both lungs,cut a 2 1/2" hole in the offside plate,and took 2 inches of the offside femur with it. As always,I never recovered the bullet. I have also killed several of the larger sows with it. One almost as big as the above boar.

At 50yds this load will almost cut the same hole. And it produces about the same power as a well loaded 45-70. Mags can be bought from AA but you can make your own using the 20rd steel mags from USA Mags. Use the steel ones cuz you have to spread the forward portion of the feed lips in order for the BW rd to sit a little nose high and you don't want the aluminum lips to try to spring back. The USA brand of mags cost about 9 or 10 bucks and they function flawlessly. The 20rd,223 mags will hold 7 shots,the 30 rd mags will hold 12 shots. I permanently blocked several of the 20's to 5rds for hunting.

The SOCOM takes the .458" bullets as you stated and the Bushmaster takes the .452" bullets. Same as the 45LC/454Casull. There are plenty of these out there also. I have a friend that has a 450Bushmaster and he absolutely loves it,however it is no more accurate than my BW.

Several years ago I had a sport hunting with me in Maine and he took a 875lb bull moose with a BW. I called it in to 30yds and he put one shot thru the shoulder and it exited in back of the far side shoulder taking two ribs with it. He was using a hand loaded 400gr.

The BW has been great for me but take a very close look at the Bushmaster. Personally the SOCOM is not for me. It's too much in between.

Also remember.....I would suggest.....no non plated bullets thru a gas operated gun. Any further info on the BW just let me know.---SAWMAN
EDIT to Add---> always get a BW with(or add the factory as I did)a brake. The factory(AA) brake is excellent. It makes the recoil like a 20ga shooting a mid power load.

[MULEMAN]

According to some articles I have read it is not recommended to use the 6 position collapsable srock with these big bores due to possibly breaking or collapsing them, yet RRA offers a collapsable option with the 458 socom? Do they really recoil enough to break a stock ?? I was thinking of an upper for my M&P which has a collapsable stock??

[SAWMAN]

A brake would be advised when using a BW or a SC upper,especially with a collapsable stock that puts the bare plastic up against your shoulder. The Bushmaster comes with a brake already installed. I have shot a BW without a brake and it is pretty brutal.

The above target was shot with my BW on bench and bags. I loaded a AA mag with 4 and released the carrier group. I then fired approx. 1 shot per second at 50 yds. This is the group I got a couple of years ago right before hunting season. Last year I shot an even better group but managed to loose the target.

The AA factory brake is exceptional at taming recoil and muzzle rise. I have shot a Bushmaster and they are equally as good. Don't know about a SC or what brake you would install if any. I probably would take a close look at the JP Brake. ---SAWMAN