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Alaskan Brown Bear

19K views 82 replies 44 participants last post by  epwrangler 
#1 ·
This has probably been hashed out before but I have a notion of hunting Brown Bear in Alaska maybe within 5 years, I know its a little ways out but I like to put thought into things, not just leap before looking. Anyways, the most powerful rifles I own are a 444 Marlin and a 30-06. Now I have been wondering if I really need a magnum or if these would get the job done. The 444 would be close up and the 06 if I needed anything over 150 yards. I have looked this topic up in internet searches and the results have always been a mixed bag. It seems like getting a bigger caliber is a comfort thing for most and others say just shoot what you are proficient with. If I did step up I was thinking probably a Win. M70 in either .338 Win Mag or .375 H&H. I'm not really wanting to beat my self up with recoil and shooting a rifle out of a lead sled is fine to sight in, but then I would have to pay the piper practicing. So, my esteemed Marlin Owner brothers, what say you? Do I really need to go big or go home for a longer range option as apposed to the 06?
 
#43 ·
DDS444 bet a lot of bears been downed with less than either of yer guns (probably mostly under less than ideal conditions) :ahhhhh:

Find a old gummer... :biggrin: will not hurt so much if'n ya get mauled :shot:

Besides most bear hunting videos... the hunter fairs better than the bear.
 
#44 ·
When and if I can afford a grizzly hunt, I'll use my .30-06, if my .375 is broken or lost... :biggrin:

I do have a huge amount of confidence in a good .30-06 with heavy Nosler Partitions, but even more confidence in the .375 H&H. Seems to me that big guns are made for big game. I do however respect what I've read from some of the great bear hunters, and the faith they place in fairly mundane cartridges.

Tell ya, was mule deer hunting, 2009, not far from Yellowstone in Wyoming. My pard and I were walking up a tight trail, going deeper and deeper into a remote, high country canyon. He was carrying a .270, I had a .25-06 rifle, we had planned on hunting the sagebrush lowlands, but we weren't finding any good bucks there. We went higher.

Found bighorn sheep. Cool. Found black bear tracks. Cool. Found doe mule deer. Cool. Found grizzly tracks. Uh oh. Found cub tracks inside what must have been mama grizzly's tracks. Oh my... We got our mulies, two of them. Boned them out and packed them out on our backs. Think we weren't a little nervous, not having a "bear rifle" with us in what was obviously grizzly country?

It was interesting, and I've decided to carry a .30 cal should I hunt that country again for mulies, or elk. With big bullets.

I think your .444 is a fine idea, with appropriate bullets, but I wouldn't argue against any of the big bore Marlins.

336ER - some years ago a few of us were dropped off at a remote lake by float plane, in Alaska. Backpacked deeper into the wilderness. It was an incredible trip. I think we spent 9 or 10 days in the backcountry. I'd love to do that trip again! It was worth every penny.

Guy
 
#45 ·
M700,
Had a similar experience in Wyoming while Muley hunting.Looked down at my .243 and it seemed rather inadequate.Wished I had my 8x57 at the time.
(Although later in the day I got a bull Elk with the 243 with one shot at 90yds)
If I had a chance at Alaska hunting I would take either my 375 H&H or 45-70.Not that my 444 wouldnt do the job.I would rather err on the side of "alot of gun".Range that I would hunt would help determine what rifle I used.
A friend of mine use to guide hunts in Alaska and even though he loved the 270 he always used the 338 win mag in bear areas.He told me of hunters showing up with 460 and 458 win mags and have NEVER fired them!My friend made all hunters shoot a pie plate at 100yds while standing.Had to hit it at least 3 shots out of five or you were not hunting.
 
#50 ·
Had a similar experience in Wyoming while Muley hunting.Looked down at my .243 and it seemed rather inadequate.Wished I had my 8x57 at the time.
Wouldn't a 44Mag pistol with Buffalo Bore ammo give you the firepower you need against a large bear? It's what I carry, course a 300lb bear is the largest I've seen yet.
 
#47 ·
Like another said, what a great opportunity to buy another rifle! I just finished reading "Ask the Alaskan Brown Bear/Grizzly Guides" about a month ago. All but maybe one recommended the hunter carry a .375 H&H. One I think suggested a .338 Winmag. Brown bear is still on my bucket list. I own rifles of virtually every chambering mentioned in this thread. In many cases, I have several in the same chambering all the way up to .458 Lott. Fact is, the .375 in a rifle of proper weight ( I would suggest 9 - 11 lbs.) is a dream to shoot. It has more of a push recoil. It is truly a great cartridge. Over the years I have found that learning to shoot the big bore magnums has made me a better shooter. When I shoulder a 30-06 (I have several) it's like shooting a rimfire. On occasion I hunt whitetail with my .375s. It actually produces less meat damage than the hot rod rounds. As they say, "you can eat right up to the hole". A wounded brown bear (like all dangerous game) is serious business. A poor or ineffective hit can put both the hunter and guide in danger. The .375 H&H will give you and your guide an extra margin for error. If the animal is gut shot it would probably make no difference but I think we are all assuming a good shot. If you can, step up to the .375 H&H. Once you have one, you will love it. Shooting it will make you proficient and confident for the hunt. T.S
 
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#48 ·
T.S., somehow I've found myself the owner of a pair of nice .375's and I couldn't agree more. It is an excellent cartridge, even 100 years after introduction. I too liken the recoil to a "big push" more than a sharp jab. Accurate, even at longer ranges. Powerful, but not overwhelming. Lots of penetration, and good soft point bullets expand very well.

I've got the Ruger Number One, and a Winchester Model 70. For the great bears, I'd most likely grab the Win 70 as it's a repeater, and that could be handy. If we're talking coastal Alaska, where it rains hard, and most of the time... I'd pop it into a good synthetic stock rather than ruin the nice walnut.

Hope to have that big Alaskan hunt someday. That would be pretty incredible.

Regards, Guy
 
#51 ·
The inland grizzlies are smaller than their coastal cousins. The coastal brown bears can weigh over 1,000 lbs. I have a .44 mag revolver and a .454 Casull. Neither would be my choice as my primary weapon. As a backup sidearm, you bet.
 
#52 ·
Thanks for starting this thread. I love to read everyones answer and the thought behind it. Makes for good thinking and discussion. Like most everyone else, it would be a dream hunt for me also. Not arguing with anyone, but I would take my Marlin 45-70 Guide Gun for 3 reasons: 1) simply because that is what I have, 2) I am confident in the rifle and my ability to use it, 3) and I am sure that it is enough gun. Any extra money after paying for the trip and having enough set aside for a nice bear rug would be spent on a new side arm. Currently my back up is a Springfield XD in .45 cal, but I am thinking I might want a large cal revolver, I see them as a little more fool proof than a bottom feeder semi pistol, with more chambering options.


So, I agree take the Marlin big bore, can't go wrong. Just my 2 cents.
 
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#53 ·
Currently my back up is a Springfield XD in .45 cal, but I am thinking I might want a large cal revolver, I see them as a little more fool proof than a bottom feeder semi pistol, with more chambering options.
I heard but haven't found any confirmation, that the hide on a Grizzly is up to 4 inches thick. I use to carry a 45, thinking that is enough, but now highly doubt it. I don't even know about a 44Mag. A Casull (like Texas Shooter carries), probably. The 45-70, or any rifle 30cal and up should do it. Bear spray, a complete joke!

I've seen a lot of bears this year, one looking into my cabin thru the screen door ( :ahhhhh: ), and find them awesome, but I'm always on alert as they can be very dangerous.

LGS customer and train employee, told me about a Grizzly that was run over by a train last year. The Griz was eating his Moose on the tracks and would not back down on the steady oncoming train. Train 1, Griz 0, game over, no replay.
 
#54 ·
Have seen hundreds of brown, grizzly, black and polar bear over the years. Only shot one grizzly in camp. In alders and low light - with a great dog that kept barking and yet kept a distance from him. Put down completely with a Buffalo Bore 45-70 that went front under the chin to breaking the pelvis with spinal breaks along the way. He flipped and was likely dead. Put another in him just as insurance. It was too close and will never forget the mixed smell of broken alder, salmon smell on him and the tin smell of all the blood. Tried to learn from the experience and now have a shorter barrel (16+) and a rail for a light on the front. No more finger grip on a flashlight while shooting. Hard cast heavy bullet was welcome. Three prior shots of a 300 WSM magnum all were going to kill him with a heart and lungs blown and a leg cracked but had not yet nor had they stopped his ability to charge. We were all impressed with the sudden end brought by the 45-70 to it all. This bear was only 8'8", healthy but about average size. It seemed much larger within feet and determined. Have had many near experiences with bear but this was the only no doubt shoot one defensively rather than a hunt. Buffalo Bore or Hard cast ammo, consider a light rail - for camp if nothing else, practice kneeling shots to get a horizontal shot, practice smooth and accurate from a number of angles. Practice when the weather is bad and in low light if you can and practice shooting partial views as in cover half the target and at odd distances. The most important is practice close shots as well. They are different. I also yell at friends while they are practicing to help get a sense of it at times. Good shots at still targets miss often under stress until they get used to it. Have shot many moose, caribou, etc. many with handgun, bear in close is something different.
 
#57 ·
Do not let anyone say you lacked for courage. Hope you had a lot of good memories of outdoor Alaska.
 
#56 ·
Lots of great information. The 30-06 would be a great back-up and my #1 choice would be a Marlin big bore. I have those and I'm also a fan and own a 338WM. Not much sence in getting it if for only one hunt. I use mine all the time. If by chance you do get a 338 be sure to use the larger pills in the 250 to 275 grain. I like the Speer 275 grain Hot Core for close work in dense brush and the 250 grain Sierras SBT for long range. Use a Limbsaver with the 338 if your recoil sensitive.
If I were to use my Marlin on big bears I would use my 500 grain paper patched bullet.
 
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#59 ·
A gun that hits like a freight train does sound like a plan. .444 marlin with heavy wide metpleats in hard cast does this. I have been waiting here to see about your hogleg. A revolver in 44 or 45 should go with you. Buffalo bore makes a 325 gr. probably a 340 gr with lube and check for the 45 colt or casull. It is always there with you thus why it is a side arm. I read both 1 and 2 of Alaska Bear Tails, when I spent most of 67 days in Alaska wilderness, and there were lots of dead or mauled 30-06 hunters. Several 06's barrels were bent by bears and some were tooth marked. Your library may have or can get either copy of the Alaska bear tails. BTW barnes does make a 250 gr. .30 cal bullet that may help if you do the 06. It was my elk timber load in a 742 carbine. I thought best choice for 50 to 75 range in a 06. More input. Hope this helps. Have fun and bangaway.
 
#60 ·
You know that 338 Winchester magum cut to length and with a Limbsave is not that bad with recoil. I started out with a model 70 when I was a teen but unfortunatly I wore it out. I now have a Browning A-bolt in 338. I loved the Winchester but the Browning is also a fine choice both being very accurate.
I broke my shoulder when I was in my twenties and had a Magnaport put on the model 70 and I had a muzzel break put on the A-bolt. I did this before I discovered the Limbsaver. If I could do it over I would just get the Limbsaver and forget the others.
 
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#62 ·
This is an old thread but I think it is interesting to not that the Canadian Rangers are thinking about replacing their 303 Enfields with 308 rifles. These guys have faced down everything and won with heold 303 equivalent of a 3006 an pkan to replace it with the 3006 update from the 50s called 308 win. I would rather shoot a god 3006 or 308 I knew well as opposed to something that made follow up shots difficult.
 
#63 ·
Yes an old thread but a good one. I've hunted Elk and Moose in Griz country (lower 48) for 3 decades with my favorite hunting caliber, 35Whelen. I have had my share of surprises with Griz in those 3 decades and never felt under gunned with 250GR PT.

Alaska, now that is a different story. They get larger up there and especially the coastal bears. If I were to go on a Alaska Griz hunt, it would either be a 45-70 or 375H&H. Not that the 35Whelen isn't capable but when you are being charged by an angry brute more gun is better. I happen to like the idea of raising my odds to one shot kills.

AlaskaDawg's story is a good example.

Jack
 
#64 ·
As Jack said, an old thread but a good one. I would love to do a brown bear and/or grizzly bear hunt in the future, and I would not hesitate to use my 444 Marlin. Bullet selection and shot placement are key. I've taken a bison with my 444, I'd have no issue going after a brown bear with the 444.
 
#66 ·
I'm going to preface this with I am NOT a bear hunting expert...but I can't think of many situations where I would feel under-gunned with my 30-06.... I'm curious as to what game animal(s) on this earth could take a 30-06 hit with proper bullet and shot placement....and NOT die?
 
#70 ·
I don't think that is the issue. The issue, I think, is how fast will they die. Sometimes bears die seemingly easy and other times they seem invincible. Bottom line is bear can be wicked tough and one doesn't want to loose a shot bear or any other animal. The old 06 is a superb caliber in my opinion but would not be my first choice for big bear or some other large and or dangerous game. However I have complete confidence that anything hit with a well placed shot from an 06 with the proper bullet will die; just possibly not as quickly as I would like. Having said that, confidence in a weapon goes a long ways and my choice of hunting caliber is the 444. Loaded up with a beartooth 355 or even 300 I think I would use it for anything on earth but I'm sure there are those who would choose something even more powerful for some large or dangerous game.
 
#72 ·
Either the 06 or the 444 is more than enough to get the job down. You need to consider range and bullet placement . it's been down a 1000's times with less. If that's what you want to use, don't let anybody tell you that "you don't have enough Gun", Neither will bounce off the bear and you won't get eaten' and you don't have to file off the front sight.:beerglass:
 
#73 ·
Redlegagent:

You have been providing excellent insight into this topic, what caliber to use in the OP"s Alaskan Brown Bear hunt, and how to decide what a hunter should use on a large Brown Bear. I have to agree that there is a lot of hype that goes into the "latest and greatest" mfg, calibers, and scopes for hunters, and that sells merchandise. I'd say hunting a Brown Bear requires a lot of skill and experience, along with the right tools in order to make it a successful and safe hunt.

Thanks for sharing your expert opinion on this topic! :top:


Cheers!


Mike T.
 
#74 · (Edited)
Well hell, a man with an axe can kill a large Griz, my grandfather proved it and had the scars to boot. He logged the Pacific Northwest in the latter 1800's and was charged by a large Griz and couldn't make it to his 30WCF. While he survived to tell the story of killing that Griz dead, I'm absolutely positive if he had his druthers, he'd much prefer a big bore lever action with a hot heavy load to his axe. Which he purchased shortly thereafter. Can't quite recall his words exactly but it was something like... one dammed encounter is more than enough!

I believe the emphasis is that Grizzly's can be big and mean so more power is better than less power. Dead quicker can be a wonderful thing.

Jack
 
#75 · (Edited)
The muzzleloaders of the day maybe had the energy of a 44mag, they tamed the west, any Marlin big bore will cleanly and quickly kill any bear on earth. I would load up the 444 with the Ranch Dog 350gr at 2050fps, which my wife can shoot really well, and not look back. I would fine tune and verify that my Marlin cycled whichever ammo like butter, I would practice often, and go into the hunt confident.

The 444 with 350gr bullet and the 30-06 with a 220gr bullet should have about the same energy, but, the 444 slug with its wide Meplat will make a bigger wound channel from the point of entry VS the 220gr 06 bullet that has to expand. Both will penetrate well, both will cause lots of needed trauma.
 
#76 ·
Since we are mostly arm chair sages with respect to brown bears, I also defer to Phil Shoemaker.

He he said that people who say that the .30-06 is not enough gun are either inexperienced with the cartridge or they are inadevertly commenting on their shooting ability.

Your guide will be packing enough gun to finish the job if things go south. At my age, I'm no longer interested in carrying a heavy magnum, and let's face it, light weight magnums (.338 or more) are not kind to old bodies when used with heavy deep penetrating bullets. I once owned a 7.5# .338 all in- brutal with 250s at good velocity. A good stout 180 or even better a 200 out of an '06 is not even in the same league with our 150 deer loads.
 
#79 ·
Since we are mostly arm chair sages with respect to brown bears, I also defer to Phil Shoemaker.

He he said that people who say that the .30-06 is not enough gun are either inexperienced with the cartridge or they are inadevertly commenting on their shooting ability.

Your guide will be packing enough gun to finish the job if things go south. At my age, I'm no longer interested in carrying a heavy magnum, and let's face it, light weight magnums (.338 or more) are not kind to old bodies when used with heavy deep penetrating bullets. I once owned a 7.5# .338 all in- brutal with 250s at good velocity. A good stout 180 or even better a 200 out of an '06 is not even in the same league with our 150 deer loads.
Excellent point. My brother who has since passed lived in Alaska and the Yukon back in the 1970's. He spoke of a German Baron he knew in the Yukon who ran a bear hunting outfit. His recommendation for brown bear was a bullet of at least 200grs - irrespective of caliber. My brother frequently used a .270 for moose etc. and his "big game rifle" was a surplus 8mm Mauser using 220gr cartridges which he handloaded. Suffice to say he did not feel "under-gunned" despite not carrying some big magnum and he was a very experienced shooter having been a Ranger in Vietnam. I would point out however that since the 1970's we have benefitted from better bullet designs on the market so that some 180gr bullets today may be seen as comparable to the heavier round nose bullets of the past - although I still acknowledge the value of round nose bullets for dangerous game given their broader meplat. If you look at "Safari grade ammo" today in the larger calibers you usually see round nosed or semi-round nosed flat point bullets which are reputed to hit harder and penetrate and open up more consistently than pointed spitzer bullets - but that is an another argument for another day. :biggrin:
 
#78 ·
I believe I would be using my 1895GS, 45-70 or M77, .338 win mag. The thing you need to do is select a couple of guides services that you may choose to use and ask them what they recommend. They will have specific recommendations and some will have minimum requirements. These guys know what they are talking about and will be with you when taking the brown bear.
My brother took an inland grizzly in AK a couple of years ago using .338 WM. Hit him twice hard with the .338 and it ran into an alder thicket. He ran into the alder thicket after absorbing both 338 WM rounds. The next morning he found the bear dead in the thick alder brush. The bear he took weighed around 400lb. A browny is going to be huge compared to an inland grizzly. We are talking about 1000lb plus for a big brown bear. My brother now uses a Ruger Guide Rifle chambered in .375 Ruger. He travels to a remote mine which is above the Arctic circle. He also wears a 44 magnum sidearm at all times while in the bush. Part of his daily attire while in the bush.
 
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