So what is the big issue???????????

[Crusty Deary Ol Coot]

Afternoon 45/70 fans,

I have read quite a number of posts about reloading the Hornady Flex Tip brass, and frankly can't understand the problem which some folk think is present.

I have a couple of friends who have Marlin 45/70s, one of which was buying and shooting the Flex Tip product and the other who like myself, handloads.

Well the friend with the once fired flex tip brass took some to the other friend for a test run of reloading, and the reloader didn't reload the brass.

Hmmmmmmmm? not believing it was not possible, I ask Dan to bring me some of the brass and I'd check it out.

First I was surprised to see such a very small difference in brass length between the Flex Tip bass and standard 45/70 brass. Appears to be about 1/16" or slightly more.

Now, I'm really wondering what can possbily be the issue here.

The case length difference is so small that there simply will not be any excess pressure issues unless a person is already pushing the upper pressure limits with their standard length brass. If so, back off!

But considering the, "mild to wild" range in which the 45/70 can be loaded, and the effectiveness of my 465gr WFN at 1600 -1700fps on critters up to and including elk, I see no need/point to go to the "wild" side.

I am using Hornady reloading dies for this caliber, so possibly that makes a difference in the ease with which I was able to reload the flex tip brass. But the changes in die adjustment needed in the neck expanding/flairing and the boolit seating and case crimping die were slight, and by marking my, "normal" die settings before loading the flex tip brass, were quickly reset for the standard length brass which I use.

I am loading a 465gr WFN cast boolit in my loads, so going through my limited published data for boolits of that weight or above, I found a load with a 485gr cast boolit declared safe for use in the Trapdoor rifles.

32.5gr IMR4198 with the 485gr boolit is said to reach slightly over 1400fps in velocity. I would expect the slightly lighter boolit to equal that velocity or possibly exceed it slightly.

So for any of you that have, in real life, reloaded and fired some of the flex tip brass, am I missing something or is this really as much of a non-issue/problem as it seems.

Yes, I still think this was not well thought out by Hornady, especially now that I see the tiny difference in case length, but it being what it is and my thoughts not likely to change Hornady's mind, is there a real life issue that I'm just not seeing? Change the the profile of the Flex tip bullet, ever so slightly and use standard length brass!

From what I now see, I'd gladly except any and all flex tip brass people "can't/won't" reload and would load and shoot same without question.

Keep em coming!

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[1895Gunner]

Howdy, when I first started reloading this time around I loaded the 444 and 45/70 gummies; hundreds of em with Hornady dies. Actually like em however they are too expensive to reload at the rate I burn em up.

Keep your short brass, someday when brass is hard to get you'll be glad you have it. Remember, you don't have to just load gummies in em.

1895gunner

[Crusty Deary Ol Coot]

1895gunner,

Yep, that is kind of what I thought was the answer.

Lot of folk having a problem over what in real life is a non-issue.

Thanks,

CDOC

[Oz]

I don't load for , nor do I own a 45-70, and having read lots of posts on this subject I thought I was missing somthing too, given how easy it is to adjust dies. I guess there would be an issue if the short cases wern't segregated.

Mark.

[grilla720]

I had been wondering about that too. I've never reloaded 45/70 but I will be now that I have one. And I'll be loading both types of cases since I got quite a bit of leverevolution in a trade and I bought some regular brass too.

[1895Gunner]

Yepper, I loaded both so I bought two sets of Hornady 444 and 45/70 so I wouldn't have to adjust them back and forth (I'm basically lazy). the Hornady dies do a great job of crimping where other brands need to be ground down to allow a crimp or use a separate Lee Factory Crimp die.

1895gunner

[FourtyFiveSeventy]

I did my research and ordered a set of the Hornaday custom dies for the 45/70 and the Custom Grade New Dimension Die Seater Stem 45 Cal 325 Grain FTX Bullet. I haven't reloaded very many of these yet, but after reloading a few I had my friend look at them mixed in with some factory loaded 325's and asked him to tell me which ones I reloaded. He was stumped as he couldn't tell which were which until he turned them up and looked at the primers then he could tell me as I used winchester Lr primers and they are brass colored compared to the factory silver colored ones. I shot the factory ones over the chronograph and at 10' past the muzzle they were 1950 fps avg with the extreme spread being 125 and the standard deviation being 25. I then shot my reloads and at 10' past the muzzle they were 1980 fps avg with the extreme spread being 115 fps and the standard deviation being 20 fps. I have a 2002 1895cb. I loaded these up with 43 gr of H4198. The reason I am told that the Hornday brass is shorter is because of the extra length of the 325 gr Hornaday FTX bullets. They had to shorten the brass to keep the OAL within the limits. The factory ones I have measure 2.580-2.587. I seated and crimped my 325 reloads to 2.584. I am lazy too that is why I bought the Hornaday dies and put them in a 4 hole turret that I use on my Lee 4 hole deluxe press. I also have a set of lee dies set up in another turret so I can load my other 45/70 rounds. That way I don't have to adjust the dies just slip a turret out and put the other one in.

[ldcarpen]

Cdoc,
I get where you guys are coming from. I have once fired hornady and Remington brass. The hornadys are about .060" shorter. What I was finding is they weren't seating at the sweet spot in the crimp groove of my cast or jacketed bullets. If I seated them in that spot the OAL would be about 2.470". Is that an issue for chambering or chamber pressures? Not sure.

Ld

[308/338]

I don't load 45-70 but do load 444. I purposely brought 50 1x fire 444 cases to load 265 gr FTX bullets. I have the lee 444 die set and a L.F.C. die for full length 444 cases. The difference between a trimmed full and short cases is 2.215" and 2.065" a .150" difference. I called Lee Precision and had a L.F.C. die made for the short LE brass. But I haven't load any LE. ammo yet. Before you ask me why I had a L.F.C. die especially made for LE. brass, it's because L.F.C.D. work by pressing against the shell holder to move the crimping claws . Turning the die down an additional .150" would damage the die. You would be able to use the roll crimp in the bullet seating die if it doesn't bottom out.
Picture of the die and dummy cartridge. I sent Lee Precision a trimmed LE case and a HDY. 265gr. FP. and they seated the bullet to make the dummy cartridge.
TNY

[Crusty Deary Ol Coot]

Thanks guys, it is pretty much what I thought on the posts I read. Much todo about noth'in!!!!!!!!!!

And yes, the four cases I loaded with the Hornady dies had a great, deep and very solid crimp.

I normally don't crimp really hard, as I shoot a single shot and only crimp at all just to assure good powder burn.

Again, that Hornady die gave a very impressive crimp.

CDOC