+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
Like Tree1Likes

Thread: Black Powder in 45-70 cartridge??



  1. #1
    Sidewinder
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    116
    Member #
    28057
    Thanked
    33 times

    Black Powder in 45-70 cartridge??

    OK, I know there is probably a thread SOMEWHERE that covers this....BUT.....basically I just want to know what is involved in shooting black powder in a metal cartridge like 45-70?.....Can you load with 2FG or 3FG?.....can somebody maybe give me a link to read or a breif rundown of how this works?.....Thinking about doing some for a Buffalo Classic
    "Said I never had much use for one,...never said I didn't know how to use it..." ~ Matthew Quigley

    ~Team 45/70 #645

  2. #2
    Deadeye
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    B.C. Canada
    Posts
    604
    Member #
    3956
    Thanked
    57 times
    Very little is required. I shoot black powder out of a number of single shots and only occasionally out of my Marlin 1895 Cowboy.

    With real black powder (black powder substitutes are different), you can simply load as you would with smokeless, except fill the case to the bottom of the bullet with FFg and seat a relatively soft bullet lubed with a black powder compatible lube.

    Complexity can go up from there as there are some subtleties when it comes to putting together the most accurate load, but it is just that simple to get started.

    Here is a link to a nice intro to black powder shooting, although it's geared more toward single shot BPCR shooting.

    http://www.wahsatchdesperadoes.com/I...CR_Loading.pdf

    Chris.

  3. #3
    Sidewinder
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    116
    Member #
    28057
    Thanked
    33 times
    What are the different types of black powder? I mean Fg, FFg, FFFg etc?.....can you "overload" a 45/70 cartridge with black powder?
    "Said I never had much use for one,...never said I didn't know how to use it..." ~ Matthew Quigley

    ~Team 45/70 #645

  4. #4
    Deadeye
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Tampa Bay area central Fl
    Posts
    657
    Member #
    28699
    Thanked
    560 times
    Re Black Powder The more F's the finer the grains of the powder. Example FFFF is used mostly to prime the pan of a flintlock, FFF usally for revolvers (cap and ball) and FF for big bore rifles. I hope that this helps. T.M.

  5. #5
    Wrangler
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Naples, NY
    Posts
    311
    Member #
    4772
    Thanked
    59 times
    The designation 45-70 was originally, 45-70-405. 45 caliber, 70 grains black powder ( ffg equivalent), 405 grain bullet. This was assembled with a slight amount of compression to the powder to promote the best ignition and burning efficiency. Black powder was typically measured volumetric-ally rather than by weight. With any of the standard cast bullets it would be almost impossible to overload a modern rifle with black powder (ffg) - you actually want to fill the cartridge up to the bullet base with powder, even compress it slightly. You do want to make sure that you lube with black powder lube otherwise cleaning will be a bear.

    Google - Paul Matthews Black Powder, he is the Guru of loading for the 45-70 and has numerous books on the subject. There is also a comprehensive article in the Lyman 48th addition that is a great intro read.

  6. #6
    FRJ
    FRJ is offline
    Cowpoke
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Wet side of Washington
    Posts
    244
    Member #
    19025
    Thanked
    41 times
    I would strongly suggest that you never use any of the make believe black powders!!!!!! They have proven to be corrosive and will continue to corrode even after you have done a very thorough cleaning. Real black powder is great but you must clean immediatly after using or it to can cause corrosion. I shoot muzzleloaders and center fire and the only real problem I have with B/P is that the smoke is so heavy that if the wind isn't blowing sideways you cant see the target for quite some time. Shoot real black and have fun!! FRJ

  7. #7
    Contributing Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    4,237
    Member #
    29477
    Thanked
    6653 times
    I don't have any first hand experience (YET) with using black powder in metallic cartridges, but recommend this book to start getting the basics:

    Track of the Wolf - SPG Black Powder Cartridge Reloading Primer, revised 7th edition, by Mike Venturino & Steve Garbe

    I have found Mike Venturino to be a bit of a "dutch bag" (as my Italian friend calls them) in some of his other works, but this is a pretty informative and straight forward primer on using black instead of smokeless. Also...i seem to remember picking this book up at Cabelas about a year ago at a lower cost, but that might nto be true.
    "We don't rent pigs"

  8. #8
    dag
    dag is offline
    Deadeye
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    NE. Montana
    Posts
    548
    Member #
    3530
    Thanked
    141 times
    CCI large rifle primer, Remington case, Swiss 1 1/2, under a 535 grain bullet, you will get in 66 grains of powder, should be able to get the full 70 grains with a 405 grain bullet, the powder should be compressed a little, softer bullets are better, I shoot 25 to 1, several makers of lube, SPG and Sagebrush being two of them. Use an under sized bore snake with a patch on it to control fouling. have fun
    njcioffi likes this.

  9. #9
    Tenderfoot
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Burlington, MA
    Posts
    21
    Member #
    29633
    Thanked
    4 times
    I load a fair amount of black powder in 45/70, as well as, other calibers. Here is my routine. Size brass and seat primer, I like Winchester Magnum Rifle for black powder. Expand the neck. I have a custom expansion plug as most expansion plugs that come with die sets do not expand wide or deep enough for soft cast bullets. Next I load the powder. Although black powder is loaded by volume I weigh each charge for consistency. The powder is trickled through an 18" drop tube into the case. Depending upon the bullet I get 64 - 70 grs of 2F into a case. I place a Walters vegetable fiber wad (.060) over the powder and apply compression with a compression die. Next I seat the bullet. I cast my own 1:20 alloy. Finally I apply a taper crimp. Case prep is also a bit more complex then smokeless powder. I de-prime at the range and drop the brass into soapy water. When I get home I scub out the brass, wash, rinse and place in a special drying rack. When dry I tumble like regular smokeless brass. Special attention is placed on the primer pockets. I make sure they are even and de-burred. On my Trapdoor brass I enlarge the primer holes a bit for better ignition. Almost every aspect of loading and shooting black powder cartridge rifles is a bit slower and meticulous. Personally that is one of the things I enjoy about it.

  10. #10
    Wrangler
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    369
    Member #
    12777
    Thanked
    344 times
    I took the leap this fall and loaded blackpowder .45-70's for hunting with my Shiloh Sharps.

    I tried several different loads, with two different bullets, two types of powder, and varying charge weights and powder compression.
    Here's what I ended up with:

    First full length resized the cases. (mine were Starline)
    Federal Magnum Rifle primers. (I've since tried the CCI Benchrest primers with good results as well)
    67 grains of Goex 2F Express, trickled through a drop tube.
    Then a .060 veggie fiber over powder wad.
    Compressed the powder approx. 1/4".
    Bullet is a 405 grain SPG lubed lead flatpoint roundnose, (commercial cast bullet by Montana Precision Swaging)
    Nice consistent roll crimp.
    Powder compression, bullet seating, and crimp done in seperate steps to avoid deforming the bullets.

    This load pretty much shot into one hole at 25 yards, about an inch at 50 yards, and was still around an inc and a half at 100 yards.
    Fouling was manageable, and I could shoot maybe 6 to 10 shots between wiping with no loss of accuracy.

    I tried Goex Cartridge, and it felt a little stouter, but the fouling was drier and cakier, and accuracy deteriorated quickly.
    Tried less powder, (and therefore less compression), and my rifle didn't like it.
    I tried lighter bullets, but because they were shorter, they didn't carry enough lube, and fouling built up quickly and accuracy deteriorated.
    Heavier bullets look promising, but I haven't experimented enough yet to know for sure.

    I found that blackpowder works when you are doing everything consistently.
    It's super important to pour the powder, work the press ram, etc., etc., exactly the same every time, just like it is in getting good accuracy from a muzzle loader.

    Anyway, I had a lot of fun with it, and it felt great to come up with something that worked.
    Good luck !

    PS: I did take a deer with the load a couple weeks later... a spike buck who I would normally have let pass, but he had already been wounded thru the lower jaw and would not have survived the winter.
    Attached Images Attached Images


Home | Forum | Active Topics | What's New | Subscribed Threads

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Similar Threads

  1. Black Powder in the 450
    By REM in forum The 450 MarlinŽ
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-04-2012, 01:15 PM
  2. Black Powder in the 450
    By REM in forum The 450 MarlinŽ
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 02-15-2012, 06:27 PM
  3. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-13-2009, 05:49 PM
  4. Black Powder
    By gunbuster in forum The 45/70 Govt.
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-13-2007, 09:51 AM
  5. Black Powder
    By Jeepnik in forum The 45/70 Govt.
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 02-22-2007, 08:49 PM

Search tags for this page

45 70 black powder loads
,

45-70 black powder

,

45-70 black powder ammo

,

45-70 black powder loads

,
45-70 black powder or substitute
,
45/70 black powder ammo
,
45/70 black powder ammo for sale
,
best black powder load for marlin 45 70
,
black powder 45 70 loads
,
black powder 45-70
,
black powder 45-70 rifle
,
marlin 45-70 black powder
,
swiss 2f powder for bpcr
Click on a term to search for related topics.