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Thread: Brinell Harness vs Animal.



  1. #11
    Banned
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    I have a box of 250 of the HSM 405s (.459) for loads under 1600FPS. Box of Precision Cast (WLNGC 405) gas check .459 for 1600FPS and higher in case that buffalo is trying to hide behind a wall or door.
    msharley and Victor N TN like this.

  2. #12
    Sidewinder
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    You should be able to shoot at those velocities and pressures with 30-1. However, the most important item is the bullet design. A big flat meplat is what creates shock and potential tumble. Unless you hit bone, do not expect much expansion. The only other option for expansion is a hollow point design and 30-1 to 25-1 lead-tin alloy.
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  3. #13
    Wrangler
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    I am no expert but have killed a few deer with cast from the 45/70 with the 310 Ranchdog. I also have read 40 years with the 45/70 and grew up reading Keith. The original alloy specification for the 45/70 was 16/1 or about 10.5 BHN. Lyman #2 is 15 BHN and water cooled wheel weights are 18BHN and will most likely will not expand at 1200 fps. But they will not break up on bone either which can be important when shooting through bear shoulders.
    I would recommend you check out the articles on the Los Angles Silhouette Club Cast bullet notes page for lots of education. I hear we cannot post links so search it and enjoy.

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  5. #14
    Gun Wizard
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    hitting the spot, that is what counts the most out of everything...........
    I have never harvested an animal but I have KILLED QUITE A FEW !

  6. #15
    Marlin Marksman
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    As long as the bullet not soft lead and hard cast lead weather 18 or 20 will kill any animal in this country out of a 45/70.

    Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk
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  7. #16
    Tenderfoot
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    I just bought and loaded my first 45-70s for my new 1895SBL. I got some of the Missouri Bullet Company's coated cast 405 and 300 grain bullets. They are both BHN18. Yes, the 405 box states "optimized for large buffalo" ? and the 300 grain says "optimized for small buffalo" ?. Not many buffalo in these parts, so I plan to shoot a lot of hogs in brush with these - probably will use the 405s for hunting, the 300 for plinking or hunting goats, sheep and deer.

    If you do want to know more about the things that do affect a successful shot, knowing your bullet BHN does matter. My research on bullet hardness taught me this: a harder bullet will penetrate farther, will mushroom less or not at all, and is what you want for head shots. Also, shooting a 45 caliber bullet means you can punch a big hole without any bullet expansion. A 45-70 punches a hole 2.3 times bigger than a 30-06, 2.8 times bigger than a 270. (Area of the hole - which is what you want for blood loss).

    Too hard of a bullet (over 18 BHN) can shatter on impact - not what we want generally.

    So my opinion is that if you're shooting 45-70, BHN of 15-18 is what we want. We don't need a bigger hole - no need to destroy more meat. And if a big angry hog is running at you, the hard cast will insure penetration through a thick skull or a shoulder for immediate take down.

    And if you ever run across a buffalo, you'll be ready.

  8. #17
    Gun Wizard
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    You should be fine with that bullet. I cast my own 405gr and 465gr. I do have a BH tester but have never bothered much with it. All my cast rounds are sized and a GC installed so I never worry about a leading issue. The main thing is with cast bullets you have a laarge flat meplat and shot placement and anything you shoot will be DOA. And like was stated if the bullet you buy is undersized you will find that there will be a leading issue and also the accuracy will suffer. You should be fine with .459 or .460 with most Marlins. If you have an older one size the bore and it will tell you what size bullets will work the best. Let us know how your coming along.
    Bill
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  9. #18
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    45 70 bullet hole.jpeg

    This is what a 405 cast lead bullet did to this deer.

    Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk
    msharley and 3crows like this.

  10. #19
    Gun Wizard
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    As Officer29 indicates, LARGE MEPLAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Because the cast bullet lacks the controlling factor of a jacket, it will always be at the mercy of alloy makeup/hardness & softness and impact velocity. ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!! So, best to go with a good alloy and the large meplat and simply put, expansion is not needed.

    If it happens, well OK, if not, your not depending on it anyway.

    The Wide Flat Nose meplat is so effective that warp velocities are not only not needed, but undesirable to boot. Penetration begins to decrease at velocities over about 1700fps and the WFN meplat can be overly destructive at higher velocities. Been there and seen that!

    As per hardness, beware that "Hardcast" is for the most part a meaningless term, UNLESS with that claim comes with tested hardness figures. The term Hardcast is not drawn from a list of hardness ratings and for that reason someone's claim as per "hardcast" is simply NOT valid unless accompanied by tested hardness figures with which to compare.

    Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
    msharley, kobeinu, 3crows and 1 others like this.

  11. #20
    Sidewinder
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    So, at what velocity do I need to gas check assuming a decent fit to my barrel? I think these bullets were sized to .459.

    I notice the HSM Bear Load is stated as BH of 15 and is gas checked. My Missouri Bullet Company BH 18 bullets are not gas checked. But then as I said, I plan to load them fairly light. A different load for a different purpose so maybe they do not need to be gas checked?



    J


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