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new to 45/70 cartridge and the marlin forum

6K views 65 replies 33 participants last post by  475linebaugh 
#1 ·
Ok, First hello all. I have hunted all my life, had numerous marlin lever guns in 22 lr, 30-30, 35, 38-55, 375 win,44 mag. I have for some reason never looked at the 45/70 as a hunting round??????. But recently, I aquired a 45/70g jm stamped rifle on a trade,started to list it on armslist when my neighbor said, lets shoot it. He had some old ammo 9 rounds to be exact. so we go to the pasture and load her up. BANG.... I was expecting to be pushed back, thought the bullet would dive into the ground at 75 yds or so. But instead at 150 marked yards on my range the soda can evaporated??? Oh well that was luck my neighbor said. I agreed. so he took the same shot, same results. Now I am starting to take notice to this old big slow round.Neither on of us are exceptional shooters, but average. WE finished off the 7 rounds we had left with amazement. extremely accurate, somewhat mild manner recoil and a very handy, well balanced little rifle. So I wanted to try it some more. Bought 2 box of ammo and went to work. LET ME JUST SAY THIS RIFLE IS MY FAVORITE OF ALL TIME. That includes all the bolts in the safes. How in the world did I skip this round for so long? Selling the wood splitter, more fun to use the 45/70 hahahaha. Now I am on the hunt for a 22 in barrel and a cowboy version. It just goes to show that you are never to old to learn. My neighbor, by the way, showed up today with the same rifle LOL. WE have had a ball. I sure wish I would have had this years ago.Its such a blast.
 
#27 ·
the 45-70 is an awesome caliber. I looked at 357 levers for a long time as a bug-out/jeep/camping rifle bc it was a short(er) range lever with a big punch. when i found the 45-70 i knew i had to have it. made payments to a local pawn shop for 4 months to pick up a cherry Remlin. building my AR never gave me the thrill that looking up loads and such for the 1895 does. it's simply just a badass firearm. i joke with my uncle that i can go back country fly fishing in alaska with him now and he won't have to hire the expensive guides with AR's.
 
#35 ·
Welcome and great post! I love the 45/70 it's become more to me than a round. It's a lifestyle. lol. I have an 1895 CB. LOVE IT!!!! Wait until you get one, all your other guns will become jealous of it. :)
That sums it up perfectly.:congrats:
 
#31 ·
Reloading

Hey 475,

Get some cast bullets Welcome To Penn Bullets INC. Am using the 405 gr LFP, and 13.7 gr of Universal Clays (13.0 gr of Unique is fine). A Fed 210 primer to light it off. (am using 15.0 gr of HS 6. Don't ask, have a whole lot of HS 6):biggrin:

Clocks at 1150 fps. Low recoil, and very accurate.

Cost you about a quarter a piece. LOL (compared to $2/@ for Factory ammo).:biggrin:

Trim brass to 2.095" (ensures uniform crimp)

Later, Mark
 

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#32 ·
Hey 475,

Manuals. Lyman (has a good bit of cast bullet data), Hornaday (like the way it's written, so a "normal" person can understand the why's and wherefore's), Lee.

Can never have too many manuals. LOL

Reduced loads (like listed above) Lever Gun Performance Studies

And, for chamfering 45/70 brass, without "pricking" one's fingers...Environment Test

For uniforming primer pockets/flash holes (this will be covered in your manuals, and is a great benefit) Environment Test and Environment Test

If you start shooting more (one never saves money reloading, one shoots a whole lot more) LOL One of these gizmos is a time saver Lyman Case Prep Xpress Case Prep Center

Then, a Skinner or MVA sight (depending on ranges intended) LOL

Done! LOL! The journey begins. Load ammo, shoot............repeat..............LOL........tweak ammo.........shoot...........tweak.....load...........shoot.......repeat.........LOL

Later, Mark
 
#33 ·
Hey 475, reloading won't be a problem, your already getting great advice here, I have hornady, speer and lyman manuals. I use the lyman the most, good cast info in it.

I've used Laser cast 405 and 300gr with good success, if you run across them locally, they are both plain base. I also use cast performance 420gr gas check with great accuracy, I believe Grizzly is using Cast Performance in their custom loads.

plus one on unique, great for plinking------Ken
 
#34 ·
welcome to the MO from the motor city! you are addicted my friend, marlinitis and bigbore fever at the same time(best way to get it) AND already got reloader's syndrome kicking in! now the only thing you'll be lacking is enough time to satisfy the craving to put lead downrange!:congrats:
 
#36 ·
Welcome to the forum and in my opion the best rifle round for everything from small hogs like Havelina to the biggest the world has to offer from 300 grainers to the Garrett Rifle ammo that will not be safe to shoot in any pre 1998 Marlin rifle. I fell in love with the round at around 14 to 15 with single shot trapdoor model a buddy from church had. he bought as a kid and has handloaded for it for over 60 years with a 405 grainer over 70 grains of black. I fell in love with the round then, though I have hunted other than bird or varmits I have use3d a bow and not had any luck. This year maybe my luck can change for the better if i could hunt in city limits I woul have my limit in a day. On my 2.15 acres I have about 7 deer two of which are bucks one is pretty good size out here but my bp 1847 woulod probaly come out to play for the short distance if it was legal. Theway it is going i could see buckhot only or archery being allowed very soon. You see deer running don the streets and sidwalks here alomst daily. I shoot just baout all black stuff through My Remiln ere and love the big puff of balck and the muzzle flash from it. enough on that Welcome to the .45-70 addiction
CD
 
#38 ·
I really love this rifle, Shot more this afternoon. 405gr rem, very accurate. I am surprized at the accuracy with such a short barrel. My wife came out shortly with a pre safety 44 mag I bought her 17year ago,and said if you cant beat them, join them. We had a good time. Hadnt shot together in a couple years. SHE shoots better than me too. I shoot alot, and she comes out and shows me up. DANG IT lol. I will hunt bear this fall in wv with this rifle. Looking forward to it.
 
#39 ·
475,
Welcome to the 45-70 family. Also welcome to the Reloaders anonymous group. Love my 1895's. I recommend the Lee manual as a great starter manual. Also check out Beartooth Bullets web site for his Cast Bullet Book, it is small but lots of good info. He shoots Marlins and knows what it takes to make one accurate bullet for them. When you order his bullets they ask for the bore size as most Marlins run a little large, like .460 for cast. Just ask for any info you need lots of experience here on MO.

Glad the better half came out to share time with you as she can see the addiction developing...

Please don't let the addiction get you to bad...I need help...
Room Furniture Guitar Machine House
Gun Rifle Firearm Trigger Air gun
 
#41 ·
Lots of great cast bullet manufacturers out there, order from Beartooth for sure, but there is a 3 month wait time. For some "instant" gratification, grab some 350gr bullets from Dardas...great place to start! I also like Western Bullet company, they have a large selection of 45cal bullets for your rifle! Welcome to the fun! Reloading for this rifle isn't difficult and very satifying. Just follow the load data and you won't go wrong!
 
#42 ·
Colleagues and especially 475Linebaugh: I have been shooting the Tried and True .45-70 Gov’t. since about 1984.

Started out with a Browning B-78. Then over the years have been fortunate to have added a Lone Start Rolling Block, H&R Officer’s Trapdoor, several original Trapdoors, Ballard #5, Browning 1886, Shiloh-sharps Business Rifle, and a Marlin 1895CB. Will readily admit having some affection for the round and its rifles. .In fact, I have myself almost convinced that I really do need a No. 1 Shiloh-Sharps M1874 in .45-70.

Guess ‘ya’ could say that I have some experience (more than others; not as much as some) with the round loaded with Black or Smokeless Powder, Duplex, and lead or jacketed bullets.

Firmly believe that the .45-70 Gov’t. is a most misunderstood round whose actual down range performance far exceeds its paper ballistics charts.

Due to medical maladies, I do not hunt anymore. But if I did, I would not feel under gunned with a .45-70, with the proper load and bullet combination, in the proper range, against any game found in CONUS (For-Those-Not-in-the-Know: Contiguous United States).

I now shoot paper and from the bench mostly at 100 yards due to poor eye sight and cataracts. Have found that a paper killing load of SR4759 and the Remington 300 JHP work well in my rifles. ‘Fur zample’:
Browning 1886: 25.0 SR4759, 300 JHP, WLR (not magnum WLR) will put 5 shots at just about 1 ¼” x 1 ¼” when the light is right. Have a 10 consecutive shot group 1 ½” W X 2 ¾” H.

The Lone Start Roller (aperture front sight; Vernier tang) will do 10 consecutive shots into 1 ¾” X 2 3/8” with 25.5 grains when the light is right.

The scoped Ballard #5 shooting a 420 grain paper patch lead bullets and 70 grains of FFg KIK Black powder, will keep 5 in slightly over or under 1”, again depending upon light.

The Marlin groups open up to about 2+” at 100 yards, but that is because I need to replace—as I did for the Browning 1886 -- the barrel sight with a tang and a probably a Beach combination front sight and a barrel level for my eyesight. H&R Trapdoor also needs an aperture front sight.

For those not familiar with the old Beach sight:
www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=163929&CAT=4074
www.hallowellco.com/beech_combination_front_sight.htm

Experience on the target and as well as on my shoulder shows a good starting out load with SR4759 is 24.0 grains. This is Black Powder velocity; meaning: easy on the shoulder, the brass, and the rifle. Economical. A very enjoyable load to shoot. Adjust charge until the desired group size shows on the target. Found a magnum primer is not necessary. A downside is that SR4759 is somewhat dirty. But that could be because I do not apply a crimp. Instead I apply a slight taper crimp as some of my cases are not the exact same length.
 
#43 ·
David,
The typical 45-70 bullet is a .458 diameter. Beartooth Bullets book talks about slugging the barrel to verify the bore diameter. Many Marlins are in the .459-.460 range, Back when he was selling custom molds, Ranch Dog Outdoors also made molds to fit the Marlins .460 bore. The larger cast bullet fills the barrel bore and stabilizes better. Mine shoots great with the .460 cast bullets. Your mileage may very...

The Beartooth site has many shapes and weights to choose from. There may be a waiting period as they get a lot of orders from Marlin Owners. The Tech manual is like $15 and a good read.

Enjoy,
Ken
 
#44 ·
Thanks to everyone. I have been reading alot on casting bullets, reloading, and the history of my new mistress. lol there I go again. I thought I knew a few things about guns, bullets, etc... But I am finding out very fast, that I am not as smart as I thought. But I am having a good time learning. Still looking for a cb rifle. I just gotta have one. I have put one of my 338 win up to fund the cowboy. Thanks again. David.
 
#46 · (Edited)
Ok, I have lyman 49, nosler 7 and hornady? [dang i forget] reloading manuals on the way. [Thanks ebay] Now could anyone give any advise as to powder? I am looking to reload at low to moderate performance at first, Until I learn a little. Thanks in advance, David. Also I will only reload the 45/70 for now so how much powder is needed? 1lb? 8lb?
 
#48 ·
Hey David,

Since you are starting out, go with one pound cans of what is "on hand". Unique and Universal Clays are so good for cast bullets, from the 38 Special, to 45/70, that a four or eight pounder of either, would be a "smart" move. Will only cost more, later. LOL

Unique, Universal Clays (13.0 and 13.7 gr) under a 405 LFP for 1150 fps. And some rifles perform well with 24 gr of 2400, with a 405 LFP.

Either of the 4198's under same 405 LFP for velocities of 1200 fps to 1600 fps. (check Lyman Manual)

4198, Rx7, 3031, H 322, H 335 for "heavy" cast or jacketed loads. (check several manuals)

Either of the 4198's or 3031's work well in "full house" loads. The 4198's work with cast bullets "down" to 1200 fps.

Found, other than the reduced loads (at "bottom' of Trap Door section) the loads for the "top" of the Trap Door section consistently deliver good accuracy, and plenty of performance on game.

This would be the 28,000 cup "level".

Hope this helps.

Included this "menu", as variety of powder available right now is "sketchy". Only listed powders you are likely to locate. LOL

Later, Mark
 
#49 ·
Mark, I really appreciate your help. I have found a small gun store that has gun powder galore. I just didnt know which powder to purchase. He has 1lb and 8 lb jugs for sale. Expensive? yes, but I am looking at the amount of reloads I could get from 8lb of powder. The store owner is a jerk. I explained to him that I never reloaded before, so I needed help with powder, and any other componets that I might need. He told me he had no time to show me what would work best. Oh well, he lost some good business. NO ONE ELSE IN STORE Thats ok, I have found more powder. To date, I have 169 empty brass to start with, and cant wait to get started. One question, are cast bullets easier on rifling? Do they foul the barrels. Thanks,David.
 
#52 ·
Hey David,

Cast bullets are much easier on rifling (the AMU, using jacketed bullets, replaces barrels at 5,000 rds)

Should get over 100,000 rds on a barrel, using cast bullets, and the "lighter" loads.

A properly "fit" cast bullet, will not lead the barrel. (see threads on slugging barrels) Both of my 1895's "like" .460" diameter cast bullets. (some shoot as small as .457" bullets) With jacketed bullets, have had good success with Sweet's 7.62 Solvent.

I use patches "pre soaked" (in pudding containers) in ATF, for cleaning. Come home from range, remove bolt/extractor, and using a "pre soaked" patch, on a "tight" fitting jag, give the bore a "quick" scrub. Let stand, overnight. Repeat. Dry patch, done.

For long term storage, run another "wet" patch down.

As to the LGS, he may not be familiar with reloading. And did not want to reveal his "ignorance". His loss. (would much rather a man say he is not "versed" on a subject, than be rude) An eight pound jug of Hodgon powder should be about $135, or so. Alliant is a bit more. VV is much more. Primers should be about $160/5,000. (that's what they sell for around here)

One pound cans of Hodgon are going for $22-$23. 1,000 primers are going for $35-$40.

The good thing about buying 8# jugs, is all the powder is from same lot#. And less expensive. ($5/lb, cheaper). Powder, and to a lesser degree primers, vary from "lot# to lot#". You may gain or lose 100 fps/load, with a different lot# of powder. About 50 fps, with different lot# of primer. (making powder and priming compounds is a bit of an "art" form, as much as "science".

Hope this helps.

Later, Mark
 
#50 ·
We have a couple of gun stores in my area like that where they have zero customers and lots of product
on hand because people hate buying from them.

I buy from them, as long as I know exactly what I want.

We also have stores with very knowledgeable sales people but they are sold out of components.
 
#51 ·
Condition 1, I guess their like a$$ holes, everyone has one. I hope now that I have folks here to help me along, I will find what I need at the gun show this weekend. I will know what to get. I hope the guy that has the table full of walmart socks stays home. and all the others that bring in their leftover yardsale items. So annoying. I have spoken to a dealer here in nc that is bringing A cowboy 45/70. so maybe I will just walk across the sock table to get to the cowboy. Wish me luck.
 
#53 ·
#55 ·
David, if you don't live TOO far I've been known to teach some reloading, all my stuff is portable. I'm in South Carolina, just PM me and we'll see if we can work something out. I'm taking another new reloader out this weekend shopping for components I already taught him the basics and let him use my equipment, so let me know!
 
#59 ·
yup yup yup! mazer does know a thing or two about reloading 45-70!:flute: have gotten quite a bit of info from a lot of you folks with questions asked and also by watching what you fine folks post here and comparing/combining the tidbits i glean out. i know it sounds like an indomitable task 475 but reading through even some of the older/more obscure posts and keeping up on the current ones even if the title doesn't seem to apply to what you are looking for has brought me a wealth of knowledge VERY quickly. i have taken that information and applied it in different ways. just because it doesn't sound correct to you does not mean it will not work. adapt, apply and actualize. a highbrow way of saying be a farmer and make it work and work forever.
 
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