+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 27
Like Tree27Likes

Thread: W-W vs R-P 45-70 Brass--which is most desirable to standardize on?



  1. #11
    Gun Wizard
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Texas Hill Country
    Posts
    3,751
    Member #
    38754
    Thanked
    4069 times
    I use both W-W & R-P, and have no problems with either
    I used to try to standardize, but run into supply problems and no one company makes all calibers that I shoot
    so I load what I can get

    imagesCAS2J02G.jpg

    "No second place winner in a gunfight"
    (Bill Jordan)
    Teams 39 # 250, .30-30 # 781, 32 Special # 79, 35 # 436, 1894 # 270, .44-40 # 15, 444 # 503, .45-70 # 935, Shotgun # 5, Old Pharts # 153, Browning # 33, Bikers # 47c
    Life Member NRA
    Life Member TSRA





  2. #12
    Gun Wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Deary, Ideeeeeho
    Posts
    2,023
    Member #
    13409
    Thanked
    1661 times
    Got ya Pumpkin Chucker. ---------- That makes sense. ------------ CDOC

  3. #13
    Wrangler
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Australia - NSW
    Posts
    282
    Member #
    24538
    Thanked
    126 times
    I've standardised on WW brass. It's slightly thinner than the others allowing me to get a larger diameter bullet into the case. My bore slugs at .460 so ideally I'd like a .461 or larger bullet. But even with WW brass the biggest I can get in is .4595, RP won't let me go bigger than .458. Not sure about starline you can't get it here but it seems it's between the two
    Walstr likes this.

  4. #14
    Wrangler
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hopewell, Va
    Posts
    395
    Member #
    6540
    Thanked
    286 times
    Winchester is the easiest for me to get, so I pretty much have standardized on that brand. It's case capacity is also the highest, which allows me to run at my target velocity at lower pressure.

    I have some Starline brass, and it is without a doubt a harder and more uniform case, and I have a batch of it for a load I have worked up with a 540 grain bullet that basically emulates the "Garrett" load.

    When the Winchester cases start to wear out, and if Starline is readily available by that time, I will probably transition wholly to Starline. The slight loss in potential velocity is not a concern, and pressure at the velocity I do operate my rifle at would only slightly increase. I use a Beartooth Piledriver Jr. at 1750 fps, using AA2495 as the propellent.

    In regards to the R-P brass, I obtained 240 cases that had been stretched to 2.4" by, I believe, Buffalo Arms. I paid $40.00 dollars for all 240, and laboriously cut them back with the intent that they would be a "fire once" proposition. The load using that brass is under 28 Kpsi. I have not used any unaltered R-P brass, so I cannot comment on them in that context.
    Walstr likes this.

  5. #15
    Gun Wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Deary, Ideeeeeho
    Posts
    2,023
    Member #
    13409
    Thanked
    1661 times
    Vic, --- I question your comment, "----- run at my target velocity at lower pressure." ----------- ?? ------ Seems to me, that you would simply need more powder in the thinner case to get to those velocities as you need to burn more powder to get the pressures which in turn give you the velocity.-- a smaller amount of powder in the thicker walled case should put you to the desired velocity sooner. --------------------- I can see 1640hunters comment about case thickness and bullet dia., however, have a rifle currently on hand in which I have been attempting to load some bullets sized .460 in Winchester brass and that slight difference in case wall thickness at the mouth is not enough to help in this situation. ----- Looking for other solutions. ------------- Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
    1640hunter likes this.

  6. #16
    Wrangler
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Australia - NSW
    Posts
    282
    Member #
    24538
    Thanked
    126 times
    Crusty - I agree with your points. Vic I'm not sure you've got your physics right here. Lower pressure means lower muzzle velocity for a given bullet weight. It doesn't matter how that lower pressure comes about - whether it's a bigger chamber, seating the bullet further out, thinner brass or in the extreme case a bigger case like a 45-90. Lower pressure means there is less driving force (which is pressure multiplied by area). Have you chronied these loads or are you going by what a book says? Books can't account for the minor differences I listed above (they'll be for one brass headstamp, one seating depth, and whatever test gun's chamber they used). Also the thinner brass means you can't run as a higher pressure before it splits, not that you'd be running those sort of pressures in an 1895!

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusty Deary Ol Coot View Post
    however, have a rifle currently on hand in which I have been attempting to load some bullets sized .460 in Winchester brass and that slight difference in case wall thickness at the mouth is not enough to help in this situation. ----- Looking for other solutions. ------------- Crusty Deary Ol'Coot
    exactly the problem I ran into. I even went and bought a .462 sizer die and there was no way in hell of fitting those in... (anyone after a 462 sizer?). The way I see it if you want to run the 460s there are three options: Turn the brass (not advisable), run a stepped bullet (marginal) or get the chamber reamed (hassle). I've thought about reaming, and have even thought about just a regular straight reamer (not a gunsmith one) due to the shape of the cartridge. Surely it would "just" be a case of putting a hand reamer in of the right size, a few turns with the right cutting lube and there you go. I'm maybe not quite confident I'd get is accurate enough by hand to do it though. Although I guess you could make a bush that'd act as a guide through the bolt race way. Either way I'm running 350gr .4595 bullets with no leading at 1300fps right now. When I push these faster I might find I get leading in which case I'd think about reaming more seriously. Then I could use thicker brass too...

  7. #17
    Wrangler
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    341
    Member #
    16470
    Thanked
    152 times
    Vic must have been reading my mind because I just started a thread concerning this and received some good responses:

    How does case volume affect pressure and velocity?

    I thought for sure that the 45-90 could match 45-70 velocity at a lower pressure due to its increased case size. The reason I'm interested in this is I wanted to use a .44 mag load in .444 brass in a Taurus Judge. That way I could match my brother's Super Blackhawk with my POS judge. Also, putting the bullet closer to the barrel increases accuracy in this thing. The responses to my above thread have convinced me otherwise. I'll just use 45LC and to heck with the velocity and accuracy or listen to my brother and get a real 45LC pistol.

  8. #18
    Marlin Marksman
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Eugene Orygun
    Posts
    1,304
    Member #
    18573
    Thanked
    532 times
    WW here too, it's readily available around these parts, I picked up 300 new in the bag when I got my rifle, it seems to be the only caliber that didn't disapear off of the shelf in the last few months?
    ASE Master certified engine machinist
    Team .30-30 #234
    Team .35 #159
    Team .45-70 #161
    Team 1894 #30
    Team 39 #40
    Team 444 #357
    Team .32 SPECIAL #3
    Team 60 #8
    Team 450 #89

  9. #19
    Wrangler
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hopewell, Va
    Posts
    395
    Member #
    6540
    Thanked
    286 times
    All else being equal, the case having the highest capacity can run at a given velocity at a lower pressure compared to a lesser capacity case.

    simply need more powder in the thinner case to get to those velocities
    Yes, very true, you will have to run a bit more powder to do it. Ultimately though, higher velocities can be achieved. That is how a .300 WinMag runs 3200 fps with a 165 grain bullet vs the .30-06 at 2850 or 2900 fps--more volume of gas. It's kinda oversimplifying, given burn rates are not being considered, but....


    Same is true of a .45-90 vs .45-70. Run a 500 grain bullet at 1500 fps. Which case has the lower pressure(disregard charge needed, this is another subject)? OK, now run both at 40 Kpsi. Which one has the highest velocity? .45-90 in both cases(no pun intended).

    Yes Pumkinchunker, you can run your .44 load in your .444 brass, but if you want the velocity to be the same as in the .44 brass, you will have to increase the charge. The gas simply has more room to expand into, and if you want to do as much work, you have to provide more gas. The larger volume will also push for a longer period of time, providing the additional velocity. You will, in addition, be able to utilize slower burning powders even more to your advantage.

    The downside is recoil. Weight of the charge is part of the ejecta. Ejecta makes kick...Your 45-90 will kick a little harder at the same velocity as a .45-70, whether you can detect it or not, but the calculations bear it out.

    You also have the right idea in placing the bullet closer to the rifling.

  10. #20
    Wrangler
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Hopewell, Va
    Posts
    395
    Member #
    6540
    Thanked
    286 times
    I should have simply stated that Flattop's excellently documented and executed work with the .444 Safari grade is a prime example of this phenomenon. Read his work, it's all there.


Home | Forum | Active Topics | What's New | Subscribed Threads

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Similar Threads

  1. 1894 CCL desirable or rare?
    By GAR in forum 1894
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-26-2012, 05:54 PM
  2. More desirable of the .41 mags?
    By bottlerocket in forum 1894
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-18-2012, 07:27 PM
  3. Brass Buggy Range Brass Retriever review by Thren68
    By Brian in FL in forum Hunting Gear, Shooting Gear & Accessories
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-10-2011, 07:42 PM
  4. Desirable Marlins in PA auction
    By Rachethead in forum 336
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 10-08-2010, 10:15 PM

Search tags for this page

45-70 case volume brand
,
45-70 w-w
,
45/70 brass
,

age of w-w 45-70 govt

,
r-p 45-70 govt
,
w-w 45 70 govt
,
w-w 45-70 govt brass
,
wanted: 45lc or 45-70 brass
Click on a term to search for related topics.

Tags for this Thread